This has been a good thread, and the arguments for smoking have actually made me more determined to quit. It will be one of my main priorites after the wedding.
Yes, I'm a smoker.
No, I'm a non-smoker.
As a non smoker that used to frequent pubs and clubs, I never really understood it - everyone knows the health risks.
I have seen people walk for miles home because the choice at the end of the night was taxi or packet of fags. I have been to party's in foggy flats where ash is spilled and trodden into the carpets. I have had to leave jackets airing outside because they stink too much to take them in. I have had to shower when coming in from a pub/club before going out again because my hair stank.
It's not just the anti-social aspect or smell that I don't understand, but more the fact that two packets of cigarettes is the equivelent of a night's dancing plus drinks - how can it compare?
BTW there are some non-smoking pubs and clubs, but they are few and far between. Socially, we now tend to meet in resteraunts {non-smoking}, but whether that's because we're all growing a bit older or not I don't know.
Another BTW: I just saw in the news (this time last week... spooky) that they are developing anti-smoking vacines: the vacine actually block the pleasure giving chemicals from stimulating the pleasure centers of the brain, removing the 'fix' element. This (in theory) forces the user to go "cold turkey", removing the 'addiction' factor of the niccotine
This has been a good thread, and the arguments for smoking have actually made me more determined to quit. It will be one of my main priorites after the wedding.
PHEW!
It's not just me. For a moment there I thought I was being unreasonable in my quest for smoke-free dance floors. Now I know I'm not the only one
My own thoughts on this are that we should be able to go about our daily lives reducing the risk of an early demise where the risks are known. We have all received health education which tells us about the risk factors - don't breathe cigarette smoke (directly or indirectly), don't eat loads of fatty foods, don't drink alcohol to excess, remove asbestos from our homes and workplaces, have protected sex, take plenty of exercise, see our doctor if we have a change in bowel habit, eat more fruit/fibre, don't spend too long in the sun, etc, etc, etc.
We prioritise items like those above based on factors such as risk, cost, degree of difficulty, etc.
And the expert advice is that giving up smoking is the thing that makes the most difference - giving up should be all smokers No1 priority if they're going to do anything to improve their health and reduce their risk of disease. So not breathing cigarette smoke makes it into my top 10 things to do (protected sex is my No1 - given the chance...). And, as I think a great deal of my friends, I would like to help them reduce their risks too. To remain silent/passive when my friends and family are taking unnecessary risks with their health would be cowardly.
Smokers regularly use the argument 'We're taking other risks so it's OK to smoke' or even 'They say I should give up smoking but they (the government) don't say I should give up xxxx or do yyyy and I know that's important' or even 'I take a risk every time I use the car and I need to do that'. This is a completely unsupportable argument. Why should we take an avoidable risk just because some are unavoidable or more difficult to avoid?
Had what in me Graham, I told you to keep quiet!!!Originally posted by Boomer
Good thread Pammy(who'd have thought you had it in ya )
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
see our doctor if we have a change in bowel habit
Oh and Dr Iain; you are a master of medical knowledge. Don't suppose you want us to check in with you if we notice a change in Andy's point above ??
Now children, this kind of comment could, in later life when you discover your 2nd childhood, lead you down many different alleys. I forward that this quote is best served by being forgotton...does anybody second the motion?Originally posted by Andy McGregor
PHEW!
see our doctor if we have a change in bowel
More importantly kiddy-winks, ALWAYS ENSURE YOU QOUTE A POST CORRECTLY. Otherwise it could leave you looking like a burkeOriginally posted by Andy McGregor
see our doctor if we have a change in bowel habit
The quote about the 'change in bowel habit' is quite serious but really only used to illustrate that there are many things we can be doing to stay healthy.Originally posted by Boomer
Now children, this kind of comment could, in later life when you discover your 2nd childhood, lead you down many different alleys. I forward that this quote is best served by being forgotton...does anybody second the motion?
It's quite a tasteful way of describing something which people don't want to talk about and often feel so embarrassed about that they don't present to their GP with symptoms until the disease has progressed further than it might otherwise have done. For more information visit here http://www.coloncancer.org.uk/pdf/knowing.pdf . Most changes in bowel habit are not related to cancer of the colon or rectum but it's nice to have your mind put at rest even if it is a slightly embarrassing subject. And I'm quite keen to do anything I can to promote a positive outlook to personal health and would choose to have a few moments embarrasment with my family doctor rather than the alternatives.
And don't forget, giving up smoking is still the greatest single thing you can do to improve your health and live a longer life.
to bring the thread back to smoking, I applaud the smokers who have entered this debate to defend their choice. It shows a strong will. To be devil's advocate (sorry Gus) for a moment, I have read no credible defence of smokers expecting others to put their health at risk by passive smoking. The only defence offered so far that passive smokers don't mind is not true - see the result of the poll on Smoking and Dancing Don't Mix. The majority don't like it but won't actually confront a smoker at the time.
OK this thread has got me out of the closet again . . .
NO! NO! NO! NO!Originally posted by Pammy
but who saw the tv prog. on the 100 Club last night, with all the jivers/lindy hoppers on there. Loads of familiar faces, great little feature. Who's up for a *group* trip to the 100 Club in the near future then?
I used to go there about twice a week, but it is too too smoky, it has to be an amazing band that's on for me to even faintly consider it (despite the good beer and recent air conditioning).
(BTW did you video the prog?)
And yes I love my beer, wine, etc. though rarely indulge due to dancing and smoky pubs, but even if I have once or twice in my life been unsociably drunk, this doesn't compare with smokers who are unsociable every time they light up when someone else is around. (I'm not saying alcohol doesn't cause problems, we all know it does, but that's another subject, and doesn't have such an immediate impact on strangers who just happen to be around.)
I totally agree with Pammy and the Tramp on this (is this possible?) and not a whole lot more I can add to their arguments.
Does anyone have contacts in the pub/entertainment/restaurant trade? I think some good could come of this thread getting a wider audience, with so many saying they avoid pubs because of the smoke. Perhaps time for another poll, "Do you avoid going to smoky pubs, restaurants, . . ." (But I'm not doing it 'cos i'm banned.)
And any desparate addicts, don't try looking in my bag, ciggies are one of the few things you won't find in there.
And a word of advice to anyone visiting the USA
NEVER ask someone if you can "bum a fag".
Greg
I thought this had been around for sometime already Cyban or something like that from GSK, but it is not effective in everybody.Originally posted by Gadget
I just saw in the news (this time last week... spooky) that they are developing anti-smoking vacines: the vacine actually block the pleasure giving chemicals from stimulating the pleasure centers of the brain, removing the 'fix' element. This (in theory) forces the user to go "cold turkey", removing the 'addiction' factor of the niccotine
Greg
so you just went ahead and did it without even asking?Originally posted by Sheepman
And a word of advice to anyone visiting the USA
NEVER ask someone if you can "bum a fag".
Greg
that's taking 'have a nice day' a little too literally
grant
What's wrong with agreeing with Pammy???Originally posted by Sheepman
I totally agree with Pammy and the Tramp on this (is this possible?) and not a whole lot more I can add to their arguments.
Steve
Just a last post and then I'll leave every thread regarding smoking alone.
First of all, Boomer, don't worry I don't feel singled out, I knew perfectly well what was going to happen when I posted and I have been the only one to "support" smoking anyway.
I'm not expecting people to put their health at risk by passive smoking. I don't agree with smoking and dancing (or any other physical exercise) and as I said before I try to be considerate with non smokers and I've never refused to put my cigarette out or move to a different place.
Regarding the poll on smoking and dancing, where I voted that I don't like smokey dancefloors, (obviously being a smoker as Peter said I have a higher tollerance level than non-smokers) it only shows that 12% of the people who voted are making a stand and don't go where smoking is permitted. The rest go even if they don't like it (or hate it), which to me shows that at the end of the day they don't mind it that much.
Occupational hazard. Sorry but I'm unmovable on my position on this. If it really bothers you that there is smoke where you work change job. Supermarkets are always looking for people to fill shelves. If unfortunately it is a job that doesn't pay enough for you, you can always go and do a night course to improve your qualifications. You have the luck that in this country you get free courses if you are unemplyed or cheap ones if on low income.
And let's try to be objective: someone that blow smoke purposefully in your face is not an inconsiderate smoker, he is just plain rude!
My freedon ends where your freedom starts and your fredom ends where mine starts. It's as simple as that and a very difficult balance to reach. Every single one of our choices is influenced by other factors. I have decided for my well being not to go on holiday in Colombia. I always wanted to trek through the jungle and visit the Lost City in the middle of the mountains but I don't want to risk being kidnapped or worse! As I said is my choice as is your choice whether you go to a place that allows smoking or not.
Thanks for listening to the rants of a smoker!
Hi Azande, it's great that one smoker has joined the debate. Where are the others?Originally posted by azande
Regarding the poll on smoking and dancing, where I voted that I don't like smokey dancefloors, (obviously being a smoker as Peter said I have a higher tollerance level than non-smokers) it only shows that 12% of the people who voted are making a stand and don't go where smoking is permitted. The rest go even if they don't like it (or hate it), which to me shows that at the end of the day they don't mind it that much.
Thanks for listening to the rants of a smoker!
The result of the poll is what it is. To read anything else into it would be inaccurate. 56.36% of responders hate smoky dance floors and a further 12.73% don't like smoky dance floors. They didn't say they 'go even if they don't like it (or hate it)'. To take a view, as azande has done, that the 69.09% who voted don't like or hate smoking 'at the end of the day don't mind it that much' because they didn't vote that they're taking a stand is an abuse of statistics and twisting their words to suit the argument. No wonder the weight of evidence that smoking is bad for you hasn't had the impact it should have done if this is an example of smokers logic
The argument about occupational hazards is even weaker. Many people chose their careers before there was clear evidence that passive smoking harms health. It might be too late for them to change career paths. Also, a new career will probably pay less during retraining. And, of course, these jobs need filling with someone so the risk remains the same, just those that are taking the risk change. And times change too, new evidence is brought forward all of the time. At one time people worked with asbestos because nobody had made the association between it and cancer. The don't any more. The same is now true for passive smoking. There is clear evidence of the risk.Originally posted by azande
Occupational hazard. Sorry but I'm unmovable on my position on this. If it really bothers you that there is smoke where you work change job. Supermarkets are always looking for people to fill shelves. If unfortunately it is a job that doesn't pay enough for you, you can always go and do a night course to improve your qualifications. You have the luck that in this country you get free courses if you are unemplyed or cheap ones if on low income.
want to risk being kidnapped or worse! As I said is my choice as is your choice whether you go to a place that allows smoking or not.
Azande is right about freedom of choice when it comes to recreation. We can choose where we go and don't go. What we need is to be able to make an informed choice. We need to know what risks we are taking. If we know that one venue allows smoking and an alternative does not we can make a choice. I think this means that azande and Andy will never meet. And I'm doubly pleased about that 'coz he's bound to be bigger than me
One thing that we must not forget in the whole of this debate is that we are not being compelled to smoke. People don't have to do it. There is no basic human need to smoke so smokers are not being denied their human rights when they enter a no smoking environment. But there is an argument that smokers are denying us our right to good health by expecting us to breathe their smoke while we go about our normal daily lives.
Azande, please don't make this the last rant. We need more smokers to argue their corner. Nobody expected this to be an easy journey to smoke free dance floors. On the other hand, I might argue that the change is inevitable, why fight it?Originally posted by azande
Thanks for listening to the rants of a smoker!
Isn't one of the first thing they teach us in statistics is that you can "prove" anything, as long as you twist the data the right way????Originally posted by Andy McGregor
The result of the poll is what it is. To read anything else into it would be inaccurate. 56.36% of responders hate smoky dance floors and a further 12.73% don't like smoky dance floors. They didn't say they 'go even if they don't like it (or hate it)'. To take a view, as azande has done, that the 69.09% who voted don't like or hate smoking 'at the end of the day don't mind it that much' because they didn't vote that they're taking a stand is an abuse of statistics and twisting their words to suit the argument. No wonder the weight of evidence that smoking is bad for you hasn't had the impact it should have done if this is an example of smokers logic
And one of the first things they teach you in marketing is to ask the questions in a way that gives you the answers you want. But in this occasion I wrote the quesionnaire with a 6 point scale so people couldn't really sit on the fence. The top half are saying they are ok with smoky dance floors the bottom half are saying they don't like them. All the rest is measuring how strongly they feel about it.Originally posted by Aleks
Isn't one of the first thing they teach us in statistics is that you can "prove" anything, as long as you twist the data the right way????
Pretty much what I wanted to say but wouldn't have put it so eloquently.Originally posted by Andy McGregor
There is no basic human need to smoke so smokers are not being denied their human rights when they enter a no smoking environment. But there is an argument that smokers are denying us our right to good health by expecting us to breathe their smoke while we go about our normal daily lives.
In any case... where I dance in Scotland it is banned. Result. Now I just have to put up with the smelly hands and smelly breath..... but hey.... people have to put up with me !!!! Jeez....wonder if azande will start a campaign to get me banned for being an ex-smoker... or for wanting to lead.... or for all those other little imperfections of mine.......
Wxxx
Wendy, you're too nice to get banned!Originally posted by Wendy
or for all those other little imperfections of mine.......
I would think he's (probably) prepared to "put up" with you just as you are, as long as you're prepared to do the same for him........(and he smokes somewehere else, washes his hands, eats a mint and sprays his clothes and hair)Originally posted by Wendy
Pretty much what I wanted to say but wouldn't have put it so eloquently.
In any case... where I dance in Scotland it is banned. Result. Now I just have to put up with the smelly hands and smelly breath..... but hey.... people have to put up with me !!!! Jeez....wonder if azande will start a campaign to get me banned for being an ex-smoker... or for wanting to lead.... or for all those other little imperfections of mine.......
Wxxx
I have no problem "putting up" with him.. he's a great guy.... a great dancer and probably the most considerate smoker I have met.... he washes his hands, smokes outside etc..... jeez.. he's almost perfect !!!!Originally posted by Aleks
I would think he's (probably) prepared to "put up" with you just as you are, as long as you're prepared to do the same for him........
Wxxx
I'm starting to fancy him myselfOriginally posted by Wendy
I have no problem "putting up" with him.. he's a great guy.... a great dancer and probably the most considerate smoker I have met.... he washes his hands, smokes outside etc..... jeez.. he's almost perfect !!!!
Wxxx
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