View Poll Results: Do you smoke?

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  • Yes, I'm a smoker.

    8 11.76%
  • No, I'm a non-smoker.

    60 88.24%
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Thread: Smoking in the real world...

  1. #21
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    I seem to recall being on a residential course, with other pub managers, and at breakfast one morning, one of them fired up an incredibly smelly pipe, when I was enjoying my full cooked brekky..........now that's inconsiderate
    I don't think I was too polite in asking him to remove himself from the dining room

  2. #22
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    Hail Boomer!

    And Boomer, don't worry; after a night out with the rest of us, we'll have you off of the ciggies and onto the fast food in no-time!!!

    Px

  3. #23
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    Originally posted by Pammy
    Hail Boomer!

    And Boomer, don't worry; after a night out with the rest of us, we'll have you off of the ciggies and onto the fast food in no-time!!!

    Px
    There goes the physique And it was just starting to get somewhere Goodbye future six-pack, goodbye delts and ants hello triple chin, pot'belly and copious amounts of sweat when I dance Not that I'll be dancing much, who's gonna dance with a big fat sweaty like me

    Thanks Pammy(tm)

  4. #24
    Meglio del Cioccolato Demo
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    Originally posted by Pammy
    Hail Boomer!

    And Boomer, don't worry; after a night out with the rest of us, we'll have you off of the ciggies and onto the fast food in no-time!!!

    Px
    Wow. What a swap!

  5. #25
    Meglio del Cioccolato Demo
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    Sorry DD but I don't agree with you regarding the pub. I call that "occupational hazard". You want to do a job and that job has certain characteristics. Working in an environment full of smoke is one of them, (like working in a casino). You could have always banned smoking in the pub ( but that wouldn't have been financially viable, would it?) or if you were just employed there you could have left and opened a bar where smoking was banned.
    Sorry to hear about your father but my great grandad who smoked 40 cigarettes and 5-6 cigars a day died at 93 of natural age and my grandad, who was a smoker until he was 70 died at 87 of something completely different. Two different examples.

    Peter, I don't want people to treat me with the same compassion as drug addict, I have seen lots of them and I assure you is not the same thing.

  6. #26
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    Originally posted by Boomer
    who's gonna dance with a big fat sweaty like me

    Thanks Pammy(tm)
    Erm, me(tm), so long as you leave the gorilla suit outside; *the monkey phobia thing*

    Yep, me!! Sweaty is a must isn't it? As long as it's not stale sweaty

    Oh, and just a quicky (this isn't worth starting a whole new thread for), but who saw the tv prog. on the 100 Club last night, with all the jivers/lindy hoppers on there. Loads of familiar faces, great little feature. Who's up for a *group* trip to the 100 Club in the near future then?

    Px

  7. #27
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    Gorillas = great-apes (humans to) monkeys = chittering little buggers who bite and steal food.

    Ok I have 1 person to dance with, leaves only one small problem...‘Ok class , offer your hand to the lady, semi-circle to the left, step back facing the lady.....I said facing the lady!’

    ‘I cant, my arms aren’t long enough!’

    Bigfatsweatygorilla leaves class in tears, dragging stomach behind him. Starts smoking again.

    Had to touch on the subject again. Giving up is a bugger.

  8. #28
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    Originally posted by azande
    I still have to see proof that breathing other people's smoke is more dangerous than breathing polluted air and I never heard anyone complaining about cars.
    Try going up to George Street this coming Sunday - I'm sure you'll be able to find someone happy to complain! Click for details of Car Free Festival

  9. #29
    Chief Worrier PeterL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by azande

    Sorry to hear about your father but my great grandad who smoked 40 cigarettes and 5-6 cigars a day died at 93 of natural age and my grandad, who was a smoker until he was 70 died at 87 of something completely different. Two different examples.


    This is a non-argument. Some people are susceptible to the harmful affects of smoke some are not, not all smokers die from smoking, in fact 4 out of 5 don't. but 20% death rate is a big risk to take. Granted it is our choice. The point of this thread is that non-smokers don't have a choice and many of them are susceptible to the harmful affects of smoking- they haven't chosen to take that risk.

    As far as occupational hazard is concerned- I had to put up with people purposefully blowing smoke in my face because they were annoyed, I have nothing against and would condone any policies of don't smoke at the bar but in the smoking area designated.

    When I smoke I do not want it affecting other people- some facilities give you no choice, they are already smoky and you figure what the h*** but that does not make me right to do it.

    As far as being a drug addict is concerned a smoker is a drug addict end of story, it may not be as bad as other drugs but it is a drug which many of us feel trapped and controlled by.

  10. #30
    Chief Worrier PeterL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by azande

    I still have to see proof that breathing other people's smoke is more dangerous than breathing polluted air and I never heard anyone complaining about cars.
    People said the same about smoking 10 years ago and I have heard lots of people complaining about cars.

  11. #31
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    Yes, every rule has an exception and these shuld be factored in. However, I have no desire to find out if I'm the exception (smoked 5 ounces of Golden per day, died at 102 - cause of death heart-attack indduced by 20y/o Irish-redhead) or god knows what at 40, cause? Smoking.

  12. #32
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    Germ line polymorphisms of p53 and CYP1A1 genes involved in human lung cancer.

    Kawajiri K, Nakachi K, Imai K, Watanabe J, Hayashi S.

    Department of Biochemistry, Saitama Cancer Center Research Institute, Japan.

    The p53 tumor suppressor gene is mutated in diverse types of human cancer, and the normal allele encodes a nuclear protein that regulates expression of cell cycle-related genes as a transcription factor. The wild-type of p53 protein exists as at least two forms of variants among human populations, ascribed to amino acid replacement at codon 72 of Arg by Pro. In this study, we show that this germ line Arg-Pro polymorphism at codon 72 of the p53 gene is associated with genetically determined susceptibility to smoking-induced lung cancer; a susceptible genotype Pro/Pro has a 1.7-fold higher risk of this cancer compared with other genotypes. This p53 polymorphism modulates risk to smoking-induced lung cancer independently of other genetic risk factors such as germ line polymorphism of CYP1A1 or GST1 genes


    As you can see some people are more susceptible than others to harmful affects of different environmental toxins, smoking is one of the easiest preventable of environmental dangers. The point I am making here is that everyone knows a smoker who was fine, they obviously didn't have susceptinle genes, r u willing to take the risk and inflict that risk on others.


    by the way I don't fully understanfd the above, I got it from searching the web but what it does tell me is some people are more susceptible to smoking related lung cancer than others and I am sure the same is true for other smoking related diseases.

  13. #33
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    Peter, I know is a non agument. It is just my personal experience of smokers in the family like DD's father is his experience. That's the only point I wanted to make.

    As far as drug addicts and smokers, the only common thing is the meaning of the term 'drug addict' and nothing else.

    If I smoke is because at a certain level I'm willing to accept the risk, like every other single smoker. Just like if you are a non smoker is your choice to go to the pub or not.

  14. #34
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    Originally posted by Boomer
    Bigfatsweatygorilla leaves class in tears, dragging stomach behind him. Starts smoking again.


    Back to smoking though, I think there's an element of denial in saying 4 out of 5 people who smoke don't die of smoking related illnesses.

    It's like saying you might not die from crossing train lines, but would I wouldn't want to play chicken (sorry Chickie, no pun intended!)

    Px

  15. #35
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    Pammy I was actually making the oppositeargument that 1 out of 5 definitely do.

    That is a very high number and a very high risk.
    not what I would call denial.
    It is a higher risk than playing russian roullete with a six shooter.

  16. #36
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    Originally posted by azande
    If I smoke is because at a certain level I'm willing to accept the risk, like every other single smoker. Just like if you are a non smoker is your choice to go to the pub or not.
    But why should your choice, influence my choice??

    The pub is a public place, open to everyone. There are more people now who are non-smokers, than there are smokers.

    Why should the minority be allowed to restrict the majority?

    I don't want to accept the risk - even more so, I want to be able to breathe. What gives you the right to say that if I want to avoid it, I should not go to a public place??

    Steve

  17. #37
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    Originally posted by azande

    If I smoke is because at a certain level I'm willing to accept the risk, like every other single smoker. Just like if you are a non smoker is your choice to go to the pub or not.

    People who work in pubs, don't have a choice and don't say they have a choice whether to work there or not.
    You aren't going to be able to claim dole if yyou quit your job because there was smoke in the air

  18. #38
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    Pammy(tm) grabs coat and follows Bigfatsweatygorilla, also in tears, behind his dragging stomach and tries to persuade him not to light up!

    Incidentally, does anyone know of a non-smoking pub in central London? Does such a thing exist??? Because of smoke, I've stayed out of the pub-scene so long that I don't know the answer...

    Px

  19. #39
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    I daren't light up noiw! Not after this post you've started! Today you have mostly left me in tears ,100lbs overwieght and been the cause of me leaving class! Also left me petrified of lighting up....no bad thing actually

    "If my 'freedoms' come at the expensive of anothers, the what is the nature of my 'freedom'"? [Isiah Berlin mis-quoted I'm afraid, sorry].

    It is your choice is not a really a valid argument...hmmm Azande, not singling you out here at all mate. Tramp's comments are one of many that defeat that line of 'popular' argument. If non-smokers want to go to a pub, but cant because of an 'open smoking' policy in the pub, then my 'freedom' to smoke takes on a decidedly uncomfortable nature. Small steps, such as a smokers area and/or adequate air-con allows both groups to execise an adequate level of 'freedom' of choice.

    As for the occupational hazard of work, and you can choose to work there or not! Again this is not personal, but does flick a switch in me. I spent 9-10 years working in betting-shops. I can assure anyone who cares that this was not because I loved the job - I had no choice. An unemployed w/c lad, with no qualifications dances to the devils tune. I was not alone in this situation. Walk into any low paid service-industry job and will likely find the same, or very similar attitude.

    "Why do you do this job?" - "It pays the bills". Occupational hazard - maybe, but Health and Safety, while it accepts a level of risk in a work environment, is also quite tough on insisteing that all reasonable steps are made to lessen that risk. In this xase, ventilation, air-con etc. This notwithstanding, breathing smoke into someone else's face because one has a bit of a strop is an absolute no-no! This has little to do with health (IMHO) rather it is an issue of respect/dignity.

    Good thread Pammy(who'd have thought you had it in ya )

  20. #40
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    Originally posted by azande

    As far as drug addicts and smokers, the only common thing is the meaning of the term 'drug addict' and nothing else.
    isn;t that the point? Personally I would not like to be addicted to any chemical to the extent that I cold not stop taking it where and when I wanted. (hence the chip squad, my one and only time for junk food! )
    Personaly opinion then some facts:
    If I invented a new substance that smelt as much, created as much mess AND environmental pollution (all that fag ash dumped in the street) AND was addictive AND made other peoples clothes smell as much etc. etc. it would be banned and would never be allowed to go into production!

    82% of smokers take up the habit in their impresionable teenage years (40 children PER DAY!)
    worldwide 47% men and 15% women smoke.
    In the UK 14% male professionaly smoke cf. 42% unskilled workers (similar for females)
    Worldwide tobacco kills 1 in 10 people!!
    in the UK life exspectancy of a smoker is 3-12 years less than a non-smoker (about 7 mins per cigarette)
    2,400 UK deaths per week
    1,220 in middle age or earlier
    80% of prescriptions of Statins could be avoided (COST!!!)

    50million working days lost
    Coronary artery disease accounts for 30% of medical admissions to hospital
    COPD is 8% of all working days lost

    Lung Cancer is the commonesr cancer causing death in male and females
    40,000 new cases per year (>90% are smoking related)
    18% due to PASSIVE smoking alone!
    5 year survival rate AT PRESENTATON is <10% *(35,000 deaths per year)

    in 1951 the mortality rate (how likely it is that u will die in a given year) is 14.9 times higher in smokes

    60 of the 4000 compounds in a ml of smoke are know carcinogens (in rats the amount needed to cause Cancer is equivalent to a smoker would et in 25 years -add onto that the genetic susceptibility with the p53 etc.)

    Passive smoking increases rates of:
    -Lung cancerin children and sposes of smokers
    -Deaths from heart attach in sposes of smokers
    -Respiratory problems, SIDS, ea infections and asthma attaclks in children of smokers

    The world bank estimates that smokeing related health care accounts for 15% of ALL health care costs.
    In germany 16.6 Billion Euros are spent on smoking related diseases. 51% being direct costs (ie. in hospital, GP etc.) 49% are indirect (days off work, premature retirement, extra work breaks for a fag etc.) [it was $68million in the US in 1990]


    Ave tobacco industry Morrituriti te Salutant

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