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Thread: Hamilton - a role model for all?

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Much talk has been made of young Messr Hamilton being a role model for young black men. After reading his comments after his two last races, especially after so narrowly missing the World Championship, he seems to be someone who could be a role model for a far wider audience. To be magnanimous in victory is one thing, to be so gracious in defeat shows another level of character.

    He has been dedicated, shown great skill yet has resisted to give way to venting his spleen against those who have really caused him problems. He seems to be a great ambassador for British sport ... it would nice to be able to share the same resolve and self-composure in other walks of life. Face it, I bet many of us have had far less go wrong yet reacted far more strongly.

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Much talk has been made of young Messr Hamilton being a role model for young black men. After reading his comments after his two last races, especially after so narrowly missing the World Championship, he seems to be someone who could be a role model for a far wider audience.
    Indeed he can be a role model for everyone. I didn't actually realise he was black, I'd assumed he had a bit of a tan as many sports types do - so I don't think his skin colour is a big deal.

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    I didn't actually realise he was black, I'd assumed he had a bit of a tan as many sports types do - so I don't think his skin colour is a big deal.
    Funny you should say that ... it wasn't till I saw a documentary featuring his dad that I realised he was 'black'. Actually, think he's mixed race, hence the lighter skin .. but as you say, why should skin colour, ethnic background, social class matter. He's a British sporting hero .... may we have many more

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Indeed he can be a role model for everyone. I didn't actually realise he was black, I'd assumed he had a bit of a tan as many sports types do - so I don't think his skin colour is a big deal.
    He has afro hairhow could you not realise.

    Lewis Hamilton is from Stevenage, my home town. It's a soulless place that I'm glad not to be living in any more. It's lovely to see someone from that hole of a town has done well for himself.


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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    He has afro hairhow could you not realise.
    My baby brother has (short) afro hair ... he can have 'zags' cut into it ... but he's got Caucasian skin colour. Mixed race bloodlines can thow up some interesting features.

    Sorry ... now going Off Thread on my own thread

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Funny you should say that ... it wasn't till I saw a documentary featuring his dad that I realised he was 'black'. Actually, think he's mixed race, hence the lighter skin .. but as you say, why should skin colour, ethnic background, social class matter. He's a British sporting hero .... may we have many more
    Its bizarre that people apply such labels to themselves, I generally can't see how it can be anything other than limiting. "I'm black", "yes, I can see (or not as the case may be) but what do you DO"

    Reminds me of the tv series "dead like me" where a character reacted in a "how dare you kind of way" when someone was discussing black people, I had a "what?eh?" moment - turns out she was black and I'd watched the whole series and never realised

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    He has afro hairhow could you not realise.
    In any photos Ive seen of him hes shaved to a few millimeters - Ive yet to get close enough to feel his hair

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Its bizarre that people apply such labels to themselves, I generally can't see how it can be anything other than limiting. "I'm black", "yes, I can see (or not as the case may be) but what do you DO"
    When you are heavily bullied for being 'black' it sort of ingrains it My brother got it at school despite that the fact he's not much darker than me. Hamilton got a serious going over for the same reason. If someone beats you up because you are 'black' .. then you will identify more so with that 'blackness'.

    Having said that, I've not heard Lewis make an issue of his heritage, he just gets on with the job ... despite the fact until he arrived you just don't get working class lads in F1.

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Indeed he can be a role model for everyone. I didn't actually realise he was black, I'd assumed he had a bit of a tan as many sports types do - so I don't think his skin colour is a big deal.

    I didn't realise he was black either - I've not seen any pictures of the guy, most of the news I listen to is on the radio.

    Which probably reflects my ignorance of all things sporting rather than anything else...

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post

    I didn't realise he was black either - I've not seen any pictures of the guy, most of the news I listen to is on the radio.

    Which probably reflects my ignorance of all things sporting rather than anything else...
    its a sign that, for the vast majority of us, his "blackness" is by far his least important feature. No more important than Colin McCraes "whiteness" was to his career.

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    I've been avidly following Lewis all season. He has been a shining example of how to conduct yourself. Considering the pressure and attention this remarkable young man has recieved all season, he has been one of the most well balanced people in the spotlight of F1 all year.

    Race and Colour don't come into it. As an INDIVIDUAL, he has been outstanding and I feel a role model to many if not all.

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Unlike Alonso who's proved that he likes to throw his toys out of his pram if he doesn't get his way

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Yes - he has done well - and even more, lived up to the great English tradition of losing - and being gracious about it.

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    McLaren are appealing the decision of the stewards not to take action against two of the teams for fuel infringements.

    If the appeal is upheld, 4, 5 and 6 place cars may be disqualified and Hamilton may move up to fourth which would give him the title.

    Part of me says, O good grief, give it a rest.

    Part of me says, McLaren got a swingeing fine and 'a jolly good talking' to this year, so perhaps it's not surprising that they don't like others being given a nod and a wink.

    Hamilton, it should be said, is not appealing the decision, the team is.

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Having said that, I've not heard Lewis make an issue of his heritage, he just gets on with the job ... despite the fact until he arrived you just don't get working class lads in F1.
    I didn't think he was "working class" (whatever that means). According to Wikipedia, his dad was an IT manager. Admitedly Lewis Hamilton was incredibly lucky that Mclaren heavily sponsored him as a teenager, but I wasn't aware of him being that much of a "working class" lad?

    It will be interesting to see how he changes in a couple of years, what with all the huge sponsorship deals and hordes of women throwing themselves at him.

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    McLaren are appealing the decision of the stewards not to take action against two of the teams for fuel infringements.

    If the appeal is upheld, 4, 5 and 6 place cars may be disqualified and Hamilton may move up to fourth which would give him the title.

    Part of me says, O good grief, give it a rest.

    Part of me says, McLaren got a swingeing fine and 'a jolly good talking' to this year, so perhaps it's not surprising that they don't like others being given a nod and a wink.

    Hamilton, it should be said, is not appealing the decision, the team is.
    I've supported McLaren and their actions throughout this season but for them to appeal this rather stupid and hypocritical to say the least, and ultimately totally pointless. If Williams and BMW are guilty of illegal fuel temperature then it is the team that should be penalised, not the drivers - it would be utterly ridiculous for McLaren to call for driver points to be removed given that they have benefitted from their driver points not being removed when the team was penalised in the spying scandal. I very much doubt Lewis would want to win the championship that way - after all, Kimi did do the better job when the chips were down - and it wouldn't do F1 any good at all in the light of what has happened this year.

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboTomato View Post
    I've supported McLaren and their actions throughout this season but for them to appeal this rather stupid and hypocritical to say the least, and ultimately totally pointless. If Williams and BMW are guilty of illegal fuel temperature then it is the team that should be penalised, not the drivers - it would be utterly ridiculous for McLaren to call for driver points to be removed given that they have benefitted from their driver points not being removed when the team was penalised in the spying scandal. I very much doubt Lewis would want to win the championship that way - after all, Kimi did do the better job when the chips were down - and it wouldn't do F1 any good at all in the light of what has happened this year.


    I think Kimi deserved the championship. With more wins than anyone else this season, if it was on the old scoring system, he would have won anyway

    Hamilton has been groomed to win - he will do - whether it's next year or the following. And I'm sure (but obviously not knowing him personally ) he wouldn't want to gain the championship in this way

    I think this season's been the best for a long time and all the playground fighting that's been going on isn't doing the sport any good at all.

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboTomato View Post
    then it is the team that should be penalised, not the drivers
    That's a very good point. The way that McLaren were punished rather than Alonso and Hamilton.

    However, one of the things about infringing rules in sport is that the other participants are entitled to a fair result.

    I saw recently that Marion Jones, the US sprinter, has admitted that she cheated during her preparation for and participation in the Sidney Olympics. I was saddened, because previously she had seemed like a great ambassador for sport. But not only has she had to hand her medals back, but the second, third and fourth place athletes in her medal events have been promoted. There was some doubt as to whether that would extend to the relay events, because disqualification would be unfair to the other athletes in the US teams. But it seems to me that that unfairness would have been caused by Marion Jones' cheating, and not by any decision that the IOC were to take.

    So if the team was infringing the rules, then doesn't one take it that you have to strip them of their results, which includes the positions they get in the race, and thus to make things fair to Hamilton, one presumes that he would have got a better position if they had been operating within the rules?

    One way to do it might be to dock the teams, say, half a second a lap, or whatever might be the degree of advantage gained by having fuel at a better temperature. But to take no action if an infringement is proven does itself smack of being unfair.

    There was no proof that McLaren had gained any advantage by having Ferrari's plans - the car wasn't modified, or anything. But they were still fined a huge sum.

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    That's a very good point. The way that McLaren were punished rather than Alonso and Hamilton.

    However, one of the things about infringing rules in sport is that the other participants are entitled to a fair result.

    I saw recently that Marion Jones, the US sprinter, has admitted that she cheated during her preparation for and participation in the Sidney Olympics. I was saddened, because previously she had seemed like a great ambassador for sport. But not only has she had to hand her medals back, but the second, third and fourth place athletes in her medal events have been promoted. There was some doubt as to whether that would extend to the relay events, because disqualification would be unfair to the other athletes in the US teams. But it seems to me that that unfairness would have been caused by Marion Jones' cheating, and not by any decision that the IOC were to take.

    So if the team was infringing the rules, then doesn't one take it that you have to strip them of their results, which includes the positions they get in the race, and thus to make things fair to Hamilton, one presumes that he would have got a better position if they had been operating within the rules?

    One way to do it might be to dock the teams, say, half a second a lap, or whatever might be the degree of advantage gained by having fuel at a better temperature. But to take no action if an infringement is proven does itself smack of being unfair.

    There was no proof that McLaren had gained any advantage by having Ferrari's plans - the car wasn't modified, or anything. But they were still fined a huge sum.
    I wouldn't be able to pass judgement as to whether the McLaren car was changed in light of the information that they received from Ferrari without reading the findings of the FIA's investigation (it is on the web somewhere though). It matters little anyway, the significant point was that the FIA, rightly or wrongly, found enough evidence against McLaren to penalise them very heavily. The fact that the drivers were not penalised was a bit of a get-out-of-jail-free for them, but not necessarily correct or consistent - I think they felt that it would damage the sport even more if they removed the driver points in a season that was so good and had brought many more fans via Lewis Hamilton. When Toyota Team Europe were found guilty of using illegal turbo restrictors in the 1995 World Rally Championship they were stripped of all their manufacturer and driver points (Kankkunen, Auriol and Schwarz), banned from the remaining rallies of that season, and banned from any form of entry into the 1996 WRC. McLaren have got off rather lightly compared to them.

    My (rather long winded) point being that, the FIA needs to be consistent - if they remove the driver points for the fuel irregularities, then they should have removed the McLaren drivers points in the first place, in which case we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

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    Last edited by TurboTomato; 23rd-October-2007 at 11:40 AM.

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    Re: Hamilton - a role model for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboTomato View Post
    My (rather long winded) point being that, the FIA needs to be consistent - if they remove the driver points for the fuel irregularities, then they should have removed the McLaren drivers points in the first place, in which case we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
    I see your point.

    But there wouldn't necessarily be an inconsistency. An infringement that can be pinned to a particular race and a specific advantage is not the same as a general infringement which is not referrable to a particular race or a known advantage.

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