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Thread: Dispatches - Channel 4

  1. #61
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    Re: Dispatches - Channel 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Will we one day be able to make any foetus survive, from the moment of conception? Presumably as the research progresses, this may one day be possible. So will all women then be required to carry all children to term?
    No, but if that was possible, it would give women more options wouldn't it? Maybe allowing another childless couple the opportunity to be parents, for example, without having to go through nine months of pregnancy.

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    Re: Dispatches - Channel 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    With respect, Gav, that's spin.
    No-one has made any statements "about whether you/your child should have been kept alive or not".
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    I also disagree with spending so much money and expending so much effort on keeping premature babies alive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    The discussion is on the broad policy points as to a) whether we should be, given the financial restraints, spending whatever sum of money is involved on keeping highly premature babies alive, and b) whether we should be permitting abortions as late as 24 weeks.
    This being an open forum, not the Barry Shnikov forum, means that actually, this discussion can be whatever the posters want it to be. If I want to discuss your opinion and others don't want to discuss it, please feel free to not reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    If you are going to say 'Well discussion is trumped unless you agree with my propositions because the contrary viewpoint means you don't think A and her children or B should be alive', then the discussion is valueless.
    I'm not saying that, I was merely discussing one point. At no time have I said that all other discussion should stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    It's somethin to be considered, but it isn't the only issue.
    Indeed and it's what we're considering by discussing it, along with all the other points.

  3. #63
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Dispatches - Channel 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    As a society we have to decide if we want to limit that financial expenditure (be it the premature baby, the elderly stroke victim, or the accident victim in the middle of their life with a damaged spinal cord), or if we are willing to pay whatever it takes.
    Even if we wanted to, we (collectively) couldn't afford it. And for that matter we'd probably end up running out of other resources (blood, surgeons, etc.) as well. Given current medical tech I think we're already a long way into the "you can't do everything for everyone" scenario.

    Whilst we can have an emotive arguement now about whether abortion should be allowed at 24, 23 or 22 weeks, it's a moving target. In a few years time, technology will then be able to save those babies born at 22 weeks as well. How far can this go? Will we one day be able to make any foetus survive, from the moment of conception? Presumably as the research progresses, this may one day be possible. So will all women then be required to carry all children to term?
    Well, if we get to that stage, the tech will almost certainly allow the child to be brought to term outside the woman's body. Cost will be prohibitive, of course.

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    Re: Dispatches - Channel 4

    I'd imagine eventually, instead of abortion - technology will allow removal of the baby at any term to be grown in a vat of some kind - but then the baby would have to be put up for adoption or looked after by the state until its 18.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Dispatches - Channel 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    I'd imagine eventually, instead of abortion - technology will allow removal of the baby at any term to be grown in a vat of some kind
    Uterine replicator, surely?

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    Re: Dispatches - Channel 4

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Uterine replicator, surely?
    yeah much better name than "vat" although i can see myself getting ahead in this market and starting a company called "plenty of womb"

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    Re: Dispatches - Channel 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    yeah much better name than "vat"
    It's a literary reference (that I guessed you'd know). Brainchild of Lois McMaster Bujold and a fairly key plot device.

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    Re: Dispatches - Channel 4

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    It's a literary reference (that I guessed you'd know). Brainchild of Lois McMaster Bujold and a fairly key plot device.
    all thats coming to mind is a weird woody allen film...

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    Re: Dispatches - Channel 4

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Uterine replicator, surely?
    I was thinking axlotl tank, personally.

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    Re: Dispatches - Channel 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    This being an open forum, not the Barry Shnikov forum, means that actually, this discussion can be whatever the posters want it to be. If I want to discuss your opinion and others don't want to discuss it, please feel free to not reply.

    I'm not saying that, I was merely discussing one point. At no time have I said that all other discussion should stop.
    There's that dog in the manger again!!

    I didn't say you said that discussion should stop.

    You criticised me and others for making statements which you complained of as amounting to an opinion as to whether 'you and your children shouldn't be alive'. My point was not that your post implied that 'all other discussion should stop' but rather that this level of personalisation of the issues would sterilise the discussion and make it pointless.

    When DF said "...you can't post...(quote) and (quote)..." he did not mean that you were forbidden from making such posts but that they were logically inconsistent with each other.

    When I set out what the subject of the thread was it was a descriptive statement rather than a proscriptive one.

    So no-one (at least, not me) is claiming that you shouldn't post. Merely that your contributions could be far more effective, if...

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    Re: Dispatches - Channel 4

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    It's a literary reference (that I guessed you'd know). Brainchild of Lois McMaster Bujold and a fairly key plot device.
    Hmm.

    cf Brave New World from 70-odd years earlier.

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    Re: Dispatches - Channel 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Will we one day be able to make any foetus survive, from the moment of conception? Presumably as the research progresses, this may one day be possible. So will all women then be required to carry all children to term?
    Plenty of ongoing research in the area of the artificial womb going on around the world - the pace of developments is startling some scientists.

    Artifical womb research from 2002

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