Blues Championships - was it Blues?

[Ruby]

It has definitely been interesting reading this discussion on the forum... and since I've been referenced a bit, I'd like to represent my own opinion on the matter.

First off... Sugarfoot makes a really good point. Blues is an intimate dance... not designed for "performance" the way ballroom and disco are. It's a street dance... having evolved from juke joints and from a particular social and cultural perspective. There isn't a formal lexicon of blues moves and as many have said... not a lot of agreement on what exactly blues dance is. That said, it is still possible to sit and watch someone dance such an intimate/internal dance and judge whether or not it looks good. I enjoy watching blues dance even though I may not be feeling the physicality of it at the moment of watching it.

I would disagree with those that say that blues is universally sad. While yes it's true that a lot of blues music evolved out of a culture that was (and still is) oppressed and downtrodden, the actual act of producing music is a joyful one... and dancing to it is also joyful, and so while blues dance in general has a sadder, "bluer" feeling to it than say... gypsy jazz or dixieland jazz, there is still the entire range of human emotion in there... humor, anger, sexual desire, political ranting (think John Lee Hooker's "Democrat Man"), spiritual awakening (Gospel) and storytelling (aka Bob Dylan... who drew on tons of blues artists before him).

In judging the Lucky-dip (love that name) we were given a very simple task with the first two rounds... to simply knock out any couple that didn't pass muster. That way we didn't have to tackle the difficult task of taking notes on 8 or 10 couples for four or five major sets of criteria. As we wound down to the semi-finals, then we were asked to actually score in several categories and to pick our top from each heat. We allowed ourselves to pick the top 6 (can't remember exact numbers) across the whole contest so that if there were six amazing couples in one heat and only one in the second, the first heat competitors wouldn't be disadvantaged.

For myself... what I look for first is connection. That's what blues dance is to me... pure connection. I think that if everyone learned blues dance first... every other form of social dance would be easier, because you'd have the principles of connection down and you could move onto tricks and dips and all the other fun stuff. So if a couple didn't seem to be connecting to each other musically, if they weren't relating, if they were looking away from each other more than they were having some kind of contact, then I knocked them out. If they were clumsy, off-beat, or just generally awkward, they got knocked out.

In the semis and finals we had to be more specific with our criteria. I knew we weren't going to find the same kind of blues dance that we see in the states, but I gave a lot of weight to any couples that were really staying true to the beat. And this is where I'll disagree with anyone that says we were looking for someone who downbeats on 1,3,5 and 7 or 2,4,6,8. If you look at the youtube clips that were posted, Chris Ransdell and Anna W. are actually dancing on different beats that Lucky and I typically teach. We teach something that we think works, but it's not the only way. All I really wanted to see was a physical interpretation of the music, and with blues, that is a very clear pulse.

In a lot of cases, I knocked a couple out because they were just "too smooth." Which was too bad... they might have been technically perfect, but to me it becomes slow and sexy west coast swing when you dance in a slot and don't allow the pulse to move through your body... (not to decry WCS... i love that dance form too!).

That said, while a clear expression of pulse was important to me, I know it's not the norm out here, so I went back to connection again. This time I was more demanding in wanting to see two people who were really relating to each other, not just a guy throwing a girl around the floor, and not just flashy moves. To me, this is a physical connection... the follow reacting to the lead... maybe affecting him and him reacting to her... eye-contact, emotional expression... the whole shebang.

We were also asked to judge whether or not couples were musical... did they match the music and respond to it. I like to see dancers change their energy level to fit the music, to rise and swell with it and to get small when the music quiets down. Hitting the hits always helps, but there are multiple dimensions to musicality. The lead can be dancing to the drums while the follow interprets the horns or the vocals. As long as they stay connected, this can create an amazing effect.

In the end, there were some smooth couples who made it to finals, but they had something else going on... great connection, musicality, variety of moves, and some level of showmanship. It is possible to dance blues and still show off to the judges a little. The competitors don't have to open up and do the splits or an aerial to show off to the judges... they just have to show their best side while they're doin' their thang.

While Almost an Angel said we were looking for "close hold but more open stance that we are used to a la slow ceroc" - that's not necessarily true. I do want to see couples dancing face to face for a good amount of time... but whether it's hand to hand connection, an open closed position or body to body contact doesn't matter as much. We teach the "open" closed position because it's a great starting place. It's face-to-face without being overly personal. Not everyone wants to dance with their body pressed up against a stranger, particularly at five am when we're likely to be sweaty and gross.

In the final rounds of decision-making it came down between a few folks for second and third place... there was a split between the judges on who should take third... two couples were looking really good. The final thing that I ask for in a competitor is a willingness to take risks.

One of my favorite teachers in the US calls it, "Dancing with ASS." This doesn't mean that your actual ass has to be out there, but that you are being bold, and giving it your all instead of playing it safe. I'm not interested in watching competitors play it safe. The thrill of a DWAS contest is that you are improvising with a stranger and taking chances with them on every beat. Although I wouldn't classify Trampy's dance style as a terribly pure form of blues, I know that for me, he placed at the end because he was really working it... really taking chances and not just stepping to the beat. And of course, he and his partner gave a very memorable performance.

If a couple kept my attention, or kept me from wanting to wander over to another couple, they went up in their chances of placing. Jamie and Danielle made me laugh my ass off several times. And the song, "Sweat" is a hilarious song... so it was fitting that they would camp it up a bit.

Finally, Stewart38: In my case, I made a great effort to make technical marks for each couple in the first song. I then took the second song to enjoy the dance and see if my initial impressions were correct. In some cases, I changed my marks when competitors either petered out or ratcheted up the energy. Some of the moves were either so abysmal or so amazing, it was impossible not to discuss them with my fellow judges, if only for confirmation of, "Did I just see that happen?"

If you're looking for more video representation of what is good competition level blues, just search on youtube for "Blues Shout" "Blues Rising" "Denver Blues Summit" and "St. Louis Cheap Thrills."

I know this is a terribly long post, but perhaps I can sum up by saying that any dance that is done to music should cause the viewer to feel as though the movement is a perfect expression of or response to the music. In partner dance, the two dancers, through their bodies share a conversation about that music. The better their connection, the more enjoyable the conversation.

Thank you... and good night.

-Ruby

[Lory]

Great words of wisdom

Thank you for taking the time to enlighten us, I really enjoyed reading your post and learnt a lot!

[Martin]

Thank you for taking the time to enlighten us, I really enjoyed reading your post and learnt a lot!

me too, thanks Ruby - A very interesting post.

[Sugarfoot]

Some of the dancing in those clips makes me think of Blues as 'AT with hips'

It looks like rag time, blues, tango, jazz with some swing all fused together.An interesting dance mix, but far to much going on to be classed as blues dancing.

The big movements with double steps and skips to the side etc are the sort of thing seen at Mississippi Carnivals.

[Martin]

It looks like rag time, blues, tango, jazz with some swing all fused together.An interesting dance mix, but far to much going on to be classed as blues dancing.

The big movements with double steps and skips to the side etc are the sort of thing seen at Mississippi Carnivals.

We all have our versions of blues...

Interesting Ruby saw Trampy's blues as not strictly blues, I like the Nigel Anderson and Trampy versions, and I do not like the Tango or Lindy/swing/WCS fusion.


Personal preference.

The video clips did not inspire me, I would not like to dance like that. No dis-respect, just not me.

I like a Ceroc/MJ based blues. I have done a lot of Lindy based and WCS based, blues workshops. For me I have a preference for MJ based blues. That is not to be saying I will be doing slow Ceroc, I would go for the "pulse".. with a Ceroc/MJ feel.

[Fusioneer]

Very enlightning Ruby, Thankyou.
Its helpful to know what judges are looking for in competitions and Blues is obviously an intimate dance with a range of interprations that is subject to that personal connection between the dancers and the music. Transfering the individual "feel" of a dance into a "performance" for judges is difficult enough.
It would help for future competitions to have clear criteria available to entrants before enroling (rehearsing) which would reduce confusion for competitors, audience (future blues dancers/competitors?) and maybe? judges alike.
Personally i took part in both competitions (open and dwas) for the first time and not being as successful as i would have liked, some clarity beforehand could have changed my focus.
btw my dwas a stranger was a fabulous dancer and a BLAST! big ty and respect to her for some great fun!!! shame we didnt get through, we must have missed something..

[Lory]

We all have our versions of blues...

I like the Nigel Anderson and Trampy versions

Personal preference.

The video clips did not inspire me, I would not like to dance like that. No dis-respect, just not me.

I have to agree wholeheartedly!

As you say, its all down to personal preference!

[Ruby]

I'm still following this thread... there are some abbreviations that I don't understand. Would anyone care to elucidate me on the following things:

AT
MJ... oh. duh. just figured that out.

As for the organization of the competition, I would encourage the following things to occur at future comps to clarify things:
1) Have a competitors meeting before-hand where the judges actually say what they are looking for... we do this in the states.
2) Before and after each round, have the couples line up with their numbers to the judges so we can be sure to identify you properly.

I also think it would be interesting to have an open division and an amateur division. Weren't all the winners ceroc teachers? This was brought to my attention afterwards.

Oh yeah-- major props on the music. I felt that it was an excellent selection of actual blues instead of R&B. Nice job DJs!

I really enjoyed the quotations that were pulled from Frankie Manning on yehoodi. Keep in mind that Frankie isn't a blues teacher, but his perspective on the dance reinforces the informal nature of how it developed.

There is a wonderful documentary called "Spirit Moves" that covers vintage blues, jazz and swing (and lots of other dance styles too). It was filmed in the 50s I think, but a lot of old dancers from earlier were brought out for the filming, including Frankie. Lucky and I have it with us. If we get a chance to show it, we'd love to, just so you can see where blues was at the time.

As a street dance, it's definitely evolving. What you'll see now in American competitions incorporates not only jukin, ballroomin', slow drag and yes... some grindin' (though not as much), you'll also see some contact-improv based movement, which results in some really cool lifts.

check out this youtube clip:

and the related Blues Rising Invitational Showcase clips. There are about 10 of them. There's huge variety.

Also, a more recent contest, which I placed in:
MySpaceTV: Denver Blues Summit 2007 Jack and Jill Finals by Quantum Mike

If what is going on in those clips looks like grinding, I'd like to point out that rarely do we place our pelvises flush against eachother and grind. What happens more often is that the lead has his arm around the follow's scapula and upper back (think bra-strap region). As he leads with his chest or hips, the movement ripples down the follow's body, causing her hips to pulse. This creates the "look" of grinding without the actual action of rubbing your bits on your partner's bits.

I'll stop here before I write another novel. Though I am curious... Lory, what was it in the clips that you don't like? I'd love to hear people's impressions of what looks like fun and what doesn't.

[straycat]

I'll stop here before I write another novel. Though I am curious... Lory, what was it in the clips that you don't like? I'd love to hear people's impressions of what looks like fun and what doesn't.

Mmmm. Speaking purely for myself - the level of skill shown in the Blues Rising clips is evident and phenomenal. To me though - they're a little over the top, and lack the cool elegance that I've always associated with blues dance. I'm honestly not very keen on them.

From searching on the keywords I found in your first post, the clip I found which I like the most is

Another that I love, although it's more Lindy than Blues comes from

[Ruby]

Straycat... that's an interesting variety of clips. To me, the Skye and Frida is more slow lindy with a few bluesy moves thrown in.

The second blues clip is great. Shawn is very smooth- not much of a juker... dancing with him is totally divine. And Rachael complements him perfectly.

The third with S&V is also great. If you ever get to take "Swingwalk" with them, don't miss it. It's similar to what they're doing in that clip. Very connected and great for both swing and blues music.

The great thing about blues, is that there is so much variety... if you go to a blues night, you won't get stuck doing the same dance all night. I never get bored.

[Almost an Angel]

AT

Argentine Tango

snip... excellent stuff on Comp set up and expectations.....

Please someone take note of this - it really helps - I believe this was done for the BB Blues comp and really helped people. - Would probably lessen the it wasn't blues discussion that inevatably happens after any comp.

As a street dance, it's definitely evolving. What you'll see now in American competitions incorporates not only jukin, ballroomin', slow drag and yes... some grindin' (though not as much), you'll also see some contact-improv based movement, which results in some really cool lifts.

check out this youtube clip:

and the related Blues Rising Invitational Showcase clips. There are about 10 of them. There's huge variety.

Also, a more recent contest, which I placed in:
MySpaceTV: Denver Blues Summit 2007 Jack and Jill Finals by Quantum Mike

If what is going on in those clips looks like grinding, I'd like to point out that rarely do we place our pelvises flush against eachother and grind. What happens more often is that the lead has his arm around the follow's scapula and upper back (think bra-strap region). As he leads with his chest or hips, the movement ripples down the follow's body, causing her hips to pulse. This creates the "look" of grinding without the actual action of rubbing your bits on your partner's bits.

I'll stop here before I write another novel. Though I am curious... Lory, what was it in the clips that you don't like? I'd love to hear people's impressions of what looks like fun and what doesn't.

I'll have to check out those clips later Ruby as they don't allow you tube at work (I wonder why) The forum is bad enough for my work output!!!

Ok answering your question I for one liked the look of the Blues and I can see how it's led -v subtly I know but its definately there, I also had the privilige of watching Lucky and Ruby videoing their classes which inspired thoughts in a few different directions. Thanks guys it was amazing watching you two go through the moves and I loved the partner apprecation stuff. Not that I had much chance to work on it whist at Breeze but it's definately something I'd consider looking into further. (that's why I found the original clips I posted). From what I can remember and in my opinion its a lot more frame and connection based than we're used to in MJ, more akin to WCS in the terms of the connection between the partners required. I can see how some of the concepts can be used I also loved the cool lifts and stuff.
Will check out the clips this eve.
Angel x

[Gus]

Please someone take note of this - it really helps - I believe this was done for the BB Blues comp and really helped people. - Would probably lessen the it wasn't blues discussion that inevitably happens after any comp.

Urrrrr ... The Rokovs did a workshop on the Sunday afternoon precisely on 'Performance Blues' (I still think this is a oxymoron ). Apparently the Blues competitors were so keen to get the inside track that NONE of them attended (myself included ... fell asleep ). If the competitors didn't attend this session, which could have been seen as a briefing session, then maybe that would explain some of the issue?

[Almost an Angel]

Urrrrr ... The Rokovs did a workshop on the Sunday afternoon precisely on 'Performance Blues' (I still think this is a oxymoron ). Apparently the Blues competitors were so keen to get the inside track that NONE of them attended (myself included ... fell asleep ). If the competitors didn't attend this session, which could have been seen as a briefing session, then maybe that would explain some of the issue?

They did however what Ruby was suggesting was more of a briefing session and explaining what they the Judges were looking for. I know it was on the web but how many people would have actually taken the time to read it. Yes I know that having a Performance Blues workshop was a good idea and the Rockov's are a joy to watch but possibly there should have been a more specific briefing regarding the actual competition itself, anyway if it was on Sunday that wouldn't have helped much with the Blues heats on Saturday night would it!

[Rocky]

Lots of great stuff from Ruby and this paragraph in particular encapsulates it for me:

That said, while a clear expression of pulse was important to me, I know it's not the norm out here, so I went back to connection again. This time I was more demanding in wanting to see two people who were really relating to each other, not just a guy throwing a girl around the floor, and not just flashy moves. To me, this is a physical connection... the follow reacting to the lead... maybe affecting him and him reacting to her... eye-contact, emotional expression... the whole shebang.

Dale and Sarah and Jamie and D demonstrated this brilliantly, in particular the counterplay between lead and follow and how the follow, on occasion, affected the lead.

They did however what Ruby was suggesting was more of a briefing session and explaining what they the Judges were looking for. I know it was on the web but how many people would have actually taken the time to read it. Yes I know that having a Performance Blues workshop was a good idea and the Rockov's are a joy to watch but possibly there should have been a more specific briefing regarding the actual competition itself, anyway if it was on Sunday that wouldn't have helped much with the Blues heats on Saturday night would it!

You're right of course, the rules and details of the judging criteria were posted well in advance of the competition and I guess we assumed that would be enough. But, Nigel and usually Nina too, do both brief the competitors beforehand in the BB competition and I do think that's a worthwhile thing to do, and one we will incorporate into the schedule next year.

[Lory]

I'm still following this thread... there are some abbreviations that I don't understand.

Don't worry, I don't know what 'props' stands for either

I also think it would be interesting to have an open division and an amateur division. Weren't all the winners ceroc teachers?

I believe 'all' the people in the final round, bar one, were Ceroc teachers.

Oh yeah-- major props on the music. I felt that it was an excellent selection of actual blues instead of R&B. Nice job DJs!

I really enjoyed the quotations that were pulled from Frankie Manning on yehoodi.

Yeah, me too. We all laughed but it looks as though Stewart38 might have been nearer to the mark than we ever imagined, from what FM said!

I'll stop here before I write another novel. Though I am curious... Lory, what was it in the clips that you don't like? I'd love to hear people's impressions of what looks like fun and what doesn't.

Hey, I didn't say it didn't look like it was fun!

But I apologise in advance cos I'm going to be brutally honest!

Its the 'style' I don't like.....

More than anything, its the stance... flat feet, bent legs and bums sticking out to me some of them look like they've had a bit on an accident. I don't like waggling round of hands either (I especially hate that when I'm dancing), floppy flailing legs. And lastly, I don't like bouncing, slow hopping or spinning using fast running to get round!

Err, I think that's pretty much it!

Its much the same as I don't like the style of Ballroom Tango or Ballroom jive. I can appreciate how clever it is but I don't like the look of it!

I DO however like the musicality!

I've watch Val and Dave dance blues before and they've taken my breath away, its so smooth and Val looks as though she's almost floating. Thats the style 'I' would most like to emulate!

[Chicklet]

This might be wildly wild of the mark....maybe Lory will get what I mean....I would like to see all these clips filmed again with the girls in heels to add the kind of posture that I like to see in dance and to make it look a bit less, er flat footed.

Ruby - are heels a no-no on the scene?

Thoughts?


...and intersting to me that I've never had that thought about watching WCS...analyse away...

[Zara]

I believe 'all' the people in the final round, bar one, were Ceroc teachers.

Nope, I am most definately not a ceroc teacher nor are Bandana Roger or Cathy. Im not sure about Becki (didnt she compete in the advanced category at the Champs, so cant be a teacher?)

xxx

[Lory]

Nope, I am most definately not a ceroc teacher nor are Bandana Roger or Cathy. Im not sure about Becki (didnt she compete in the advanced category at the Champs, so cant be a teacher?)

xxx

Sorry what I meant was.. at least one half of each couple.... apart from Roger and Cathy!

[Happy B]

I also think it would be interesting to have an open division and an amateur division. Weren't all the winners ceroc teachers? This was brought to my attention afterwards.

Neither myself or Tom are teachers :P

Perhaps one day

Bx

[Ruby]

This might be wildly wild of the mark....maybe Lory will get what I mean....I would like to see all these clips filmed again with the girls in heels to add the kind of posture that I like to see in dance and to make it look a bit less, er flat footed.

Ruby - are heels a no-no on the scene?

Thoughts?

Heels are actually OK. I wore heels all night at Bliss on Saturday night and enjoyed myself... they do actually help for a lot of things. But... because a lot of Blues dancers come from Lindy-hop, flat shoes are more the norm. Also, if you want to dance till sunrise, you'll find flat or a slight heel to be a lot more accomodating. There are other moves that are tougher in heels... so it just depends on what kind of mood you're in.