Blues Championships - was it Blues?

[TheTramp]

Wasn't it Becki and Tom?

Oops. Silly me.

Of course it was Becki & Tom. Seeing as how they came 3rd!

[drathzel]

Shame no-one used the 'Blues Moves' Lucky & Ruby taught

jamie and i used the ocho shoeshine move that they taught on the sunday.... only we had done it before so technically we didnt learn it from them!

[Lory]

Shame no-one used the 'Blues Moves' Lucky & Ruby taught

I tried to book for their class but it was sold out

[Almost an Angel]

Shame no-one used the 'Blues Moves' Lucky & Ruby taught

Funnily enough I was chatting to Ruby v late on sunday night about the differences in the Blues styles from the US and here and showed her the differences in styles and lead. and it appears that there are a few teachers in the USA who think that the US style Blues should be lead on a different beat probably more aligned to our 'blues style'
The Blues that Lucky and Ruby taught is what they were looking for with the partner leading the lady in a close hold but more open stance that we are used to a la slow ceroc - sits back and waits to be flamed

[fletch]

both in the DWAS competition and maybe I'll consider giving it a go next year

you might get lucky and be drawn with me

please remember I am just a jiver' I wouldn't wan't to be accused of ruining your style

I tried to book for their class but it was sold out

its hardly suprising

[Lory]

There has to be a ‘connection’

I dance with lorry before the comp and affirmed I would dance bluesy in comp not standard ‘who is over there’ type stuff

I.e. eye contact etc

To me blues is having to change your pants without anyone noticing ??

What are you like?

[straycat]

Funnily enough I was chatting to Ruby v late on sunday night about the differences in the Blues styles from the US and here and showed her the differences in styles and lead. and it appears that there are a few teachers in the USA who think that the US style Blues should be lead on a different beat probably more aligned to our 'blues style'

Can you expand on this at all? Video clips would definitely be of help for demonstrating this...

The Blues that Lucky and Ruby taught is what they were looking for with the partner leading the lady in a close hold but more open stance that we are used to a la slow ceroc - sits back and waits to be flamed

Flamed - no - I shouldn't think so. Several of my favourite teachers tend to start workshops by saying something along the lines of: "There are many ways of doing this. We're not showing you The One True Way To Do It, but rather a way that works for us."

I believe, given the varying nature and teeming versions of Blues dance technique, that this disclaimer is pretty much a given with any blues workshop or definition.

[straycat]

What are you like?

Frequently premature?

[Zara]

I didnt get the chance to watch many of the competitors, but I did get the pleasure of watching Jamie and Drathzel in the semis, wow! They were absolutely fantastic

Thank you Trampy for dancing with me

xxx

[Lynn]

jamie and i used the ocho shoeshine move that they taught on the sunday.... only we had done it before so technically we didnt learn it from them!

Ochos into sandwich with the shoeshine adornment? That's why you did so well then, you were doing AT.

[David Bailey]

jamie and i used the ocho shoeshine move that they taught on the sunday.... only we had done it before so technically we didnt learn it from them!

Ocho shoeshine? Wassat then?

[Sugarfoot]

Hmm…interesting thread


In this country we tend to forget that Blues has a real tradition….all be it underground (Sugar shacks etc). The nearest thing IMO to blues dancing in the jive world is taught by Joseph & Trisha. Joseph grew up amongst older relations who danced blues the old way. Like the music…blues dancing reflects a feeling…an emotional/physical expression of that feeling. The dance is close with few if any moves and certainly no drops and seducers. The dance took on the feel of the culture that devised and developed it much like other culturally expressive dances such as Tango and Reggae. The thought of competing with such dances merely demonstrate a complete lack of understanding. Competition by its nature is an outward expression to an audience; the ant-thesis of the original ideal. In Blues, Tango, Reggae etc only you and your partner exist, and even this duality is merged into one. Hence the Tango expression “one body, four legs”

When watching either of these dances it seems like you shouldn’t be there. Compare that to an audience cheering etc.

Since they were mentioned…Both Mandy & I had several dances with Lucky and Ruby at Camber and got to know there feelings on dance. Dave and Vale suggested we hook up as we dance similar in our mix of blues and Tango. They were right. We found it very easy to lead and follow either way.

I did a search on You Tube there are some US blues clips worth watching that demonstrate what I am trying to get across here. Worth a look

[Mac]

Hmm…interesting thread


In this country we tend to forget that Blues has a real tradition….all be it underground (Sugar shacks etc). The nearest thing IMO to blues dancing in the jive world is taught by Joseph & Trisha. Joseph grew up amongst older relations who danced blues the old way. Like the music…blues dancing reflects a feeling…an emotional/physical expression of that feeling.

That’s an excellent explanation of the concept of blues dancing and the issues of a "Blues" Competition.

However, I would go one stage further and state again as I have before that real blues is universally sad. Its slow, yes by its nature and that lends it to a certain consistent type of dance.

But I think the modern concept of Blues dancing is an evolution of the real concept but focusing on the atmosphere and rhythm of blues
(R N B) rather than the origins of blues lyrics and melody which as stated is sad.

I've said often that if we spent all night until the wee hours listening and taking in the feeling of real blues, we would be practically suicidal come day break!

Blues dancing has evolved in the same way as R N B now apparently stands for "Rhythm and Base" which is about as far away from Rhythm and Blues as you can get.

I think the modern concept is based on smooth slow jiving and its the blues tracks that provide that.

Add in some intimacy, low lighting and extreme tiredness and thats the formula for what we now know in Modern Jive Terms as Blues dancing. I dont think its something that can be measured in a contest in the traditional way but interpretation those elements can be and should be.

[MartinHarper]

Were there sufficient sudden stops and burning looks?

Many fewer dips, lingering seducers, etc than I expected.

Funny, I wouldn't think of either of those as particularly Blues. Though they're certainly "blues".

Oh, and I second the call for "clips please!", both of the blues competition, and to illustrate the discussion Angel had with Ruby.

[David Franklin]

While we're talking about tradition of blues, etc., here's a quote from Frankie Manning (seen at Yehoodi, I assume it's accurate):

"Y'all call it 'blues dancing' now, but back then we just called it what it was - 'grinding.'"

[MartinHarper]

While we're talking about tradition of blues, etc., here's a quote from Frankie Manning (seen at Yehoodi, I assume it's accurate):

Or, from "Ambassador of Lindy Hop":

There was one particular time I will never forget. I was siting watching the goings-on as I usually did when one of my mother's friends said, "Come on, Frankie, dance with me." It was a slow tune. She started holding me very close . . . and then she began gyrating at the hips! Because she was a little bit hefty, we were really pressed together. It was probably just how she danced with any other man, except I wasn't a man. Except that night I found out I was.
I was kind of relieved when the music ended because I was embarassed! It was the first time this had happened to me while I was dancing, although it definately wasn't the last. I didn't even say thank you, and I did not dance any more that night.

If I read the book right he was around 14-15 at the time: 1928-29. Later on, maybe 16-17, around 1930-31, he talks more of slow dancing:

They were playing a slow tune, and in those days when the music was slow you held the girl close... if they played a romantic ballad or a slow blues everybody would grab their girl and rush straight for the middle of the floor. Just the squares danced around the edges, while all the grinders crowded into a bunch. Guys and girls would be glued together with only our tops swaying, our feet moving just a few inches from side to side in a slow drag. At parties we'd put the lights down low, grab a girl, and just lay her up against the wall... for the blues you'd get real funky and uninhibited.
Anyway, this girl was all over my shoulder, I was hugging her, and we were just grinding away. As it turned out, she was the girlfriend of the leader of the pack. He saw me dancing with her, came over, seperated us, and pushed me away from her.

So yeah, I've had to accept that grinding is authentic Blues. I'm sure it won't be the last time I'm utterly wrong about dancing.

[Almost an Angel]

Can you expand on this at all? Video clips would definitely be of help for demonstrating this...

OK - I'll try and answer this but it's difficult to explain and easier to demonstrate. From dancing with Lucky and Ruby the Blues taught in the USA seems to be more of a double bounce to each side which is led from a more open hold rather than the up close and personal (UCP) we know here.
Although the movment side to side is completed in the same time the USA Blues appears to pulse from side to side so looking at a bar 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, so the movement would be left pulse, right pulse, left pulse, right pulse, whereas in blues in this country the movement occurs on the odd beat so 1&5 would be to the left and 3 & 7 to the right which is led via a smooth transition from side to side. the even beats are effectively smoothed out and used to aid the movement from side to side.

I've found a couple of clips on you-tube that demonstrate this (if I manage to attach them correctly) One of them is even Lucky himself.
most of them you have to watch to around a minute in and you'll see there is a clear difference in the blues hold and a more open posture and stance - you can also clearly see the double pulse being led.







Hope that helps explain a little.

If anyone's at Rebel Yell next weekend grab me and I can show rather than tell you.

Angel xx

[Lory]

I've found a couple of clips on you-tube

Some of the dancing in those clips makes me think of Blues as 'AT with hips'

[Zara]

Wow, Luckys partners hip movements were incredible in the first clip.

I found some interesting information on Wikipedia about Blues. On there, it discuss's the difficulty of defining blues.

xxx

[StokeBloke]

I don't think you dance the blues, rather you breath the blues.

There is a difference between blues and performance blues. When Twirlie Bird and me dance in a blues room it can take a few hours to get into the right zone to really dance blues together - and sometimes we can dance for an evening and never hit that sweet spot

I think the glare of the fluorescent lighting and the forced nature of a competition would make it hard for anyone to really get into the blues zone. I know that both Twirlie Bird and me had awesome fun competing. It has spurred us on towards entering more stuff in the future together. She really is as lovely to dance with as she looks

As for the 'was it blues' question. If performance blues is about conveying your connection to the judges, then I think Dale and his partner were very worthy winners.