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Thread: Jean Charles De Menezes

  1. #81
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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I don't find it difficult to understand at all and I have not said anything along the lines of 'he deserved it'. It is a fact that he shouldn't have been here...that's all I've said, and that is fact whether you like it or not.
    ...but this fact is no more relevant than the fact he had overdue library books

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Yes it does...! Wearing tarty clothes is not against the law, being in the country without the right documentation is, so it's not the same at all.
    I'll take it slowly.

    The overwhelming fact about a rape is that the rape happened.

    There are people who will say "Of course, women should be able to wear what they like, but if she hadn't worn such tarty clothes, she wouldn't have had the problem."

    Most people are unable to see the significance of the woman's dress choice to the question of whether the rapist should or should not be punished for what he did.

    Same same most people are unable to see the significance of JCdM's decision to stay and work in the UK to the question of whether the Met should be punished for what they did.

    I trust that's cleared it up.

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    The guy was seen in a pub with what was thought to be a shot gun

    when armed police responded he turn around with a table leg hidden in a plastic bag and was shot... end of

    The guy would be alive (Menezes) if he obeyed the law .. end of
    So you think it is reasonable that someone's life should end because of a completely unreliable identification of a table leg in a carrier bag as a shotgun by 'a bloke in a pub'?

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    ...but this fact is no more relevant than the fact he had overdue library books
    You need two utility bills and a pictured form of identity to get a library card, so I doubt he would have had any overdue ones.

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    I'll take it slowly...
    I trust that's cleared it up.
    Well...it's made something clear to me, that you're shlt doesn't stink, well...you think it doesn't anyway.

  6. #86
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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    In the real world if you walk around naked in Newcastle at 2am and say take me big boy your likely to attract unwanted attention

    Its not that their ‘asking for it ‘, it’s the ‘real world’

    In the ‘real world’ if Menezes had obeyed the law he would be alive today now back to the fantasy
    OK... I see I must amend my earlier statement.

    Almost everyone else got it.

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264 View Post
    OK... I see I must amend my earlier statement.

    Almost everyone else got it.
    Why do you have to be nasty? You sound like a playground bully trying to oust DT and Stew, by being abusive and condescending cos you don't like our views.

    Do I have to deal with it by lowering myself to your level?...look, I've already started on BS.

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    You need two utility bills and a pictured form of identity to get a library card, so I doubt he would have had any overdue ones.


    welcome to the met

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Does anyone else feel like they're in a childrens cartoon ?

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    So you think it is reasonable that someone's life should end because of a completely unreliable identification of a table leg in a carrier bag as a shotgun by 'a bloke in a pub'?
    It was two people and a warning was given but yes they should have pulled his school report before any action was taken

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Does anyone else feel like they're in a childrens cartoon ?
    More like a remake of the 6th Sense where the kid goes around saying "I see dumb people"...

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    More like a remake of the 6th Sense where the kid goes around saying "I see dumb people"...
    More abuse, eh? How very grown up of you. So it's true, bullies work in groups.

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Why do you have to be nasty? You sound like a playground bully trying to oust DT and Stew, by being abusive and condescending cos you don't like our views.

    Do I have to deal with it by lowering myself to your level?...look, I've already started on BS.
    ...and a lovely tingly experience it is too.

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    I'm amazed by the level of fcukwittery (nice new word, eh?) on this forum, by members who would ordinarily consider themselves of above average intelligence.
    The argument that if JCdM had obeyed the law and left the country when his visa expired he would still be alive, does not mean the same thing as if JCdM had renewed his visa he wouldn't have been shot.
    Twisting other people's words to make you look clever only works if you don't get caught.

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    It was two people and a warning was given but yes they should have pulled his school report before any action was taken
    Ah, sarcasm! Well, now I'm done for. I shall just slink off into a corner and lick my wounds.

    Ooo, just before I do, though, could you answer the question? I'll rephrase it, since the facts are so outrageously different from in my previous draft.

    "Is it reasonable to end someone's life on the report of two blokes in a pub that something long and round in a carrier bag was actually a shotgun?"

    (Whether or not a warning is given. "Put the gun down and put your hands in the air!!"
    "Gun? What are you talking about? What gun? Oh, you mean th..." BANG!)

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    More abuse, eh? How very grown up of you. So it's true, bullies work in groups.
    Think their comments more appropraite for class war forum as zeee pigs etc

    Police sometimes have to make split second judgements sometime their wrong and if so its investigated

    Seems to be its a lynch bob against the police

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I'm amazed by the level of fcukwittery (nice new word, eh?) on this forum, by members who would ordinarily consider themselves of above average intelligence.
    The argument that if JCdM had obeyed the law and left the country when his visa expired he would still be alive, does not mean the same thing as if JCdM had renewed his visa he wouldn't have been shot.
    Twisting other people's words to make you look clever only works if you don't get caught.
    The difficult us f-wits are having is this.
    · He could have stayed in that day.
    · He could have moved to Nottingham some months before.
    · He could have been on holiday.
    · He could have gone to the corner shop and returned to the flat.
    · He could have stayed in Brazil.
    · He could have done any number of things which would have meant that he would not have ended up dead that day.
    So to pick on one thing that he didn't do and assign a supreme significance to it due to your own personal views seems a trifle perverse.

    It appears that you and DT are inviting us to agree that it was in some sense it was partly his fault for what happened - is that not correct?

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Ah, sarcasm! Well, now I'm done for. I shall just slink off into a corner and lick my wounds.

    Ooo, just before I do, though, could you answer the question? I'll rephrase it, since the facts are so outrageously different from in my previous draft.

    "Is it reasonable to end someone's life on the report of two blokes in a pub that something long and round in a carrier bag was actually a shotgun?"

    (Whether or not a warning is given. "Put the gun down and put your hands in the air!!"
    "Gun? What are you talking about? What gun? Oh, you mean th..." BANG!)

    I don’t know if it was reasonable as I wasn’t there

    I think an enquiry found it wasn’t ?

    The point im making sometimes the Police have to make split second decisions as sometime those decisions are wrong.

    If it had been the Police widow how do you say to her sorry your husband got shot because we have to give 4 warnings now ??

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    The argument that if JCdM had obeyed the law and left the country when his visa expired he would still be alive, does not mean the same thing as if JCdM had renewed his visa he wouldn't have been shot.
    Twisting other people's words to make you look clever only works if you don't get caught.
    There is no twisting going on. S38's simple opinion that "if he had been legal he would be alive" is nonsense. "Leaving the country" was not the only option open to him and it sounds like you are insisting it was. He could indeed have got a new visa, claimed asylum, got a company to sponsor him, married a citizen... and been "legal". BUT what difference does that make ?- the fact that he "could have" been somewhere else rather than on a tube getting shot in the head is rather irrelevant to a dead man

    If only he hadn't been born - he'd be safe then

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    Re: Jean Charles De Menezes

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Seems to be its a lynch bob against the police
    This Bob bloke is always stirring up trouble. Now HE should be arrested. (but not shot in the head despite being guilty of traveling without a valid ticket)

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