Slotted or Circular???

[jemessex]

Hi Folks,

Maybe this has been discussed before and somebody could point me to it but Over the past few months, I (as an average standard MJ dancer) have been getting confused over whether MJ is a dance performed in going round in circles or along an imaginary slot.
In lessons from beginner level we are taught as if on a straight line yet as soon as the lesson is finished and we are into freestyle you see many dancers practicing the moves just taught in a circular pattern of footwork.
Is it because the 'lead' is not strong enough to push the 'follow back in a straight line??
I was dancing the other night locally and the follow insisted on going round in circles no matter where I led her....!!
Can any of you experts, teachers etc explain to this average standard club dancer what is correct and the correct manner to lead this.
Many thanks
Jem

[Dreadful Scathe]

neither is correct, and both are . MJ is a dance where you lead anywhere you like. Followers should not be moving where they are not lead, unless given the opportunity by a lack of lead.

[Andy McGregor]

Woo Hoo

Another slotted/circular discussion.

IMHO most moves are slotted and some are circular.

The mistake most leads make is standing in the middle of the slot and making the lady walk around them. This makes slotted moves into circular moves.

The way I describe it to guys is that it's not like meeting somebody coming in the opposite direction on a pavement and both giving way by 50%. It's more like the guy is the Matador and the Lady is the charging bull (a very sexy bull, obviously ). You need to get completely out of the way to let the lady straight past you.

This takes much more getting used to than you think.

[Lory]

whether MJ is a dance performed in going round in circles or along an imaginary slot.

As a follow in MJ, I don't think its something we really have to worry about.

Our aim should be to come out of a turn to face our partner square on, (unless lead to do something else of course!) if 'he's' changed the direction, then we should change with him.

Try not to over turn, as 'he' then has to chase us 'round' and this can be quite disruptive to the lead and can make some moves nearly impossible!

[jemessex]

Thanks Andy,

I do when leading the follow back tend to come off the slot if I want them to come past and stand in front when I want to block, but still get this infatuation from some follows of going round in circles.
Is it because in MJ (especially Ceroc) most follows have been taught this way or watched others in their learning process and it is just habitual.
And what is the politest manner or way to stop the follow going round you no matter what you do???
Once I just stood my ground while she was off on her travels and of course the dance went to pot and arms/legs were all over the place trying to rescue moves. Oh well.....another person who wont dance with me ever again...

[Andy McGregor]

Thanks Andy,

I do when leading the follow back tend to come off the slot if I want them to come past and stand in front when I want to block, but still get this infatuation from some follows of going round in circles.
Is it because in MJ (especially Ceroc) most follows have been taught this way or watched others in their learning process and it is just habitual.
And what is the politest manner or way to stop the follow going round you no matter what you do???
Once I just stood my ground while she was off on her travels and of course the dance went to pot and arms/legs were all over the place trying to rescue moves. Oh well.....another person who wont dance with me ever again...

As the lead you often find that the follow doesn't go exactly where you led them. What the lead needs to do is adjust their position or orientation so that it is correct for the next lead you give. This means that you need to chase your partner if they travel too far and you need to run away from your partner if they get too close. By adjusting your position you can make the dance more pleasant for the lady - and that is what it's all about, giving pleasure to the lady

[Gadget]

It's whatever you make it - circular and slotted and progressive and static.

The trick is both in not leading your partner astray and leading them where you want them to be. And keeping the geometry of whatever you decide to to.

To actually do this, it depends on whether your partner is opening up too far, not finishing rotating, over-rotating, taking bigger steps forward than back, always stepping to one side rather than forward, ... etc. And you also have to look at your own facing and orientation to your partner; no point in controlling where your partner is going if you are unclear on where you are first.

A good starting point for me was to always try and keep my shoulders square on to my parter, especially on the step back; if you seem to be twisting and forcing it, then you are probably taking too big a step back. After that, I worked on my rotation to ensure that I always turn in 90º segments. Then worked on stepping side-ways and on diagonals while keeping the orientation and leading properly... I'm still working on it, but my dancing is a lot more 'controlled' and looks a lot neater now.

[Andy McGregor]

Our aim should be to come out of a turn to face our partner square on, (unless lead to do something else of course!) if 'he's' changed the direction, then we should change with him.

I teach this as looking straight back down your slot. The lead might not be in the slot as he might be leading another "charge" down the slot. Probably the hardest bit about staying slotted is the body leads that you need to give when crossing the slot - the best tip I can give is to make sure you cross the slot completely.

[Andy McGregor]

It's whatever you make it - circular and slotted and progressive and static.

The trick is both in not leading your partner astray and leading them where you want them to be. And keeping the geometry of whatever you decide to to.

To actually do this, it depends on whether your partner is opening up too far, not finishing rotating, over-rotating, taking bigger steps forward than back, always stepping to one side rather than forward, ... etc. And you also have to look at your own facing and orientation to your partner; no point in controlling where your partner is going if you are unclear on where you are first.

A good starting point for me was to always try and keep my shoulders square on to my parter, especially on the step back; if you seem to be twisting and forcing it, then you are probably taking too big a step back. After that, I worked on my rotation to ensure that I always turn in 90º segments. Then worked on stepping side-ways and on diagonals while keeping the orientation and leading properly... I'm still working on it, but my dancing is a lot more 'controlled' and looks a lot neater now.

Hi Gadget,

Still doing the old "semi-circle to the left and both step back"?

[Raul]

The way I describe it to guys is that it's not like meeting somebody coming in the opposite direction on a pavement and both giving way by 50%. It's more like the guy is the Matador and the Lady is the charging bull (a very sexy bull, obviously ). You need to get completely out of the way to let the lady straight past you.

This takes much more getting used to than you think.

This would be an instance where, I think, you can test your lead by blindfolding the follower. The follower has to be led clearly along the slot and you have to be cleanly out of the way without disturbing the lead.

[Gadget]

Hi Gadget,

Still doing the old "semi-circle to the left and both step back"?

Only at the start of the routines in the classes to give my parter fore-warning... after all they are not mind readers.

Oh, and it's much easier to chase down the follower and rotate all the time to face them and maintain correct distance by moving yourself than by leading the follower so that they don't travel so far, rotate properly and stay/move where you want them... not sure if an easier dance is a better dance though

[Miguel]

Why MJ dances always seems to end up rotational IMHO is:
1) Most women can't turn and return on the spot.
2) Most men don't move out of the ladies path.
If the lady insists on dissapearing round the right-hand side of the man there's not a lot you can do. Anyway, what's wrong with rotational? When you step up to WCS you'll enjoy the difference.

[Trouble]

When you step up to WCS you'll enjoy the difference.

ahem

[David Bailey]

ahem

Well, obviously he had to say that - I mean, you've got to do the baby WCS stuff before you can do real dancing with AT.

[fletch]

(as an average standard MJ dancer)

Well as i'm 'just a jiver' I couldn't comment

yes I know i'm getting boring

jemessex....your name still makes me

When you step up to WCS you'll enjoy the difference.

I know Trouble has got in before me but

I wonder if I will be good enough to dance with this weekend been 'just a jiver' I wouldn't wan't to spoil your stlye i'm busy doing that to Gerry

Well, obviously he had to say that - I mean, you've got to do the baby WCS stuff before you can do real dancing with AT.

you know when you've been 'Tango'ed'

[TA Guy]

http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/i...on-v-slot.html

Is the first thread I'm aware of that adequately defines the three main styles regarding linear and rotational MJ dancing. Adequately enough for me at any rate Andy got the 'spokes of a wheel' one down to a tee

Linear.
Spokes of a wheel.
Rotational.

Most people I know dance the 'spokes of a wheel' type style. There seems to be a correlation between dancers who like more Bluesey music and a preference for a purely linear style (Arguably the MJ is WCS in disguise group ). There is also a correlation between faster music and a more rotational style because the faster tempo sometimes exerbates errors in technique that lead to rotation. I think that's why some people describe rotational as 'easier'.

All these styles are perfectly acceptable within the wide world of MJ, there is no 'better' style, just personal preference. However, the current fad is definitely for a more linear style, at least in the more experienced dancers.

[David Bailey]

You missed out "progressive"

[TA Guy]

You missed out "progressive"

I wouldn't have if I knew what it was ?

[David Bailey]

I wouldn't have if I knew what it was ?

Progressing around the dance floor.

Hey, it's an idea whose time has come

[Andy McGregor]

Only at the start of the routines in the classes to give my parter fore-warning... after all they are not mind readers.

No, they are followers in a lead and follow dance. Can you tell me the move a semi-circle to the left leads? There is no mind-reading required. If you want a lady to step back you should lead her to do that. Raising her hand waving it to her right and then back to where you started isn't leading anything apart from a wave