What became of the Independant MJ Association

[Gus]

I have a vague memory of the independents trying to get themselves organised to counter that Great Dark Evil that is CeRoc(tm). Something was organised in the late 80's I think. What happened? Without some structure to teaching, dancer improvement, co-operation, will there ever be a realistic challenge to Ceroc's dominance? I've noticed that when Ceroc has been challenged most (JA, Hipsters, Le Jive Dance Competitions, Jive Nation) they tend to be innovative.

Lets challenge them some more and see what they can really do

[Achaeco]

I have a vague memory of the independents trying to get themselves organised to counter that Great Dark Evil that is CeRoc(tm). Something was organised in the late 80's I think. What happened? Without some structure to teaching, dancer improvement, co-operation, will there ever be a realistic challenge to Ceroc's dominance? I've noticed that when Ceroc has been challenged most (JA, Hipsters, Le Jive Dance Competitions, Jive Nation) they tend to be innovative.

Lets challenge them some more and see what they can really do

Why ???

[Gus]

Why ???

The more innovation the better. With the pressure from WCS, Ceroc has unleashed Paul Farrell and so given even more publicity to the WCS arena. With more weekenders there has been more choice and the Ceroc weekenders seem to cater for a slightly different aspect than JA. As long as dirty tricks aren't used, then ALL parties have to improve. Now that the Ceroc Champs have finally started getting their act together maybe the UK Open Champs will have to improve their game ... and get round to bringing in an 'Advanced' category and a decent website

[bigdjiver]

Why ???

The Media is one reason. They like to seek out an independent, but representative, voice.

[Achaeco]

The more innovation the better. With the pressure from WCS, Ceroc has unleashed Paul Farrell and so given even more publicity to the WCS arena. With more weekenders there has been more choice and the Ceroc weekenders seem to cater for a slightly different aspect than JA. As long as dirty tricks aren't used, then ALL parties have to improve. Now that the Ceroc Champs have finally started getting their act together maybe the UK Open Champs will have to improve their game ... and get round to bringing in an 'Advanced' category and a decent website

I think it fab that Ceroc have hit WCS, yes they have the clout to get it in the public eye.
I think independents strive to inprove all the time as does Ceroc but not because of Ceroc.
Gus. yes the web site is in a poor condition at the moment, give me a fortnight and it will be perfect. As for us having to implement an Advanced - why do we need to do that? WE have the MASTERS category now.

[Gus]

As for us having to implement an Advanced - why do we need to do that? WE have the MASTERS category now.

So is the Blackpool Open = Ceroc Advanced and the Masters = the Ceroc Open??

Its still a mockery when we have this false impression that MJ teachers are 'professionals' so can only dance at the top level. Come on, honestly, what percentage of instructors are really Open level dancers.

[Yliander]

Gus. yes the web site is in a poor condition at the moment, give me a fortnight and it will be perfect.

look forward to seeing it

As for us having to implement an Advanced - why do we need to do that? WE have the MASTERS category now.

to allow people to progress through various competition levels - only having 2 levels at a competition is rather tough - also I would have thought Advanced would come before Masters - not been the same thing ie start at intermediate, win there move to Advanced win at Advanced move on to Masters....

think it would great to see a UK comp with full range of levels from beginner to Open/Masters

[Achaeco]

So is the Blackpool Open = Ceroc Advanced and the Masters = the Ceroc Open??

Its still a mockery when we have this false impression that MJ teachers are 'professionals' so can only dance at the top level. Come on, honestly, what percentage of instructors are really Open level dancers.

Gus. dont make assumptions. We are not making teachers enter the Masters. We all agree that some teachers are not advanced dancers.
Like i have said the website will be up and running in two weeks, if you have not got a flyer PM me and i will send you one.

[Achaeco]

look forward to seeing it

to allow people to progress through various competition levels - only having 2 levels at a competition is rather tough - also I would have thought Advanced would come before Masters - not been the same thing ie start at intermediate, win there move to Advanced win at Advanced move on to Masters....

think it would great to see a UK comp with full range of levels from beginner to Open/Masters

We tried a beginners cat last year and got a poor response.
The Masters is all about "Title" it's open to everyone. there is only a winner, no 2nd or 3rd place. This is not an open, its all about how you dance on the day to see if you can beet the rest to be the best.

[David Franklin]

We tried a beginners cat last year and got a poor response.
The Masters is all about "Title" it's open to everyone. there is only a winner, no 2nd or 3rd place. This is not an open, its all about how you dance on the day to see if you can beet the rest to be the best.

Why don't you post the actual rules for the various categories (Masters in particular) and then people will stop speculating? As it stands, this just sounds like hype with no substance.

Edit: And I certainly don't mean to rag on anyone who's setting up a website in their spare time, but from a customer's point of view I think you would do better to get the content down first and worry about the menus and appearance later.

[Achaeco]

Why don't you post the actual rules for the various categories (Masters in particular) and then people will stop speculating? As it stands, this just sounds like hype with no substance.

Cos im fed up with building a web page to have it pulled to bit by C2D so we are getting together VERY soon and spending a weekend building it together.

I will offer you the same. PM me and i will send you the flyer.

I would look a tad stupid if i was to talk about HYPE

[Achaeco]

Re your edit.

I agree.
I have every page done but refuse to publish hence the getting together

[Yliander]

We tried a beginners cat last year and got a poor response.

beginners cat is hard one - needs a lot of encouragement & hand holding from teachers to get students to enter as it is daunting for them.

The Masters is all about "Title" it's open to everyone. there is only a winner, no 2nd or 3rd place. This is not an open, its all about how you dance on the day to see if you can beet the rest to be the best.

I see. So still a 2 tiered compeition.

[Achaeco]

beginners cat is hard one - needs a lot of encouragement & hand holding from teachers to get students to enter as it is daunting for them.


I see. So still a 2 tiered compeition.

We held lots of hands but i agree for a beginner to enter a comp would be terrifying.
And.
Yes the comp is a 2 tier comp and for many years has been called by entrants "the one to win" so we have put the Masters in place to get the top dancers competing for the highest title. We are taking nothing away from Intermediate and advanced, this is different.

[Yliander]

We held lots of hands but i agree for a beginner to enter a comp would be terrifying.

can but try - was thinking not just from one dance school but many

And.
Yes the comp is a 2 tier comp and for many years has been called by entrants "the one to win" so we have put the Masters in place to get the top dancers competing for the highest title. We are taking nothing away from Intermediate and advanced, this is different.

I'm still getting my head around the way the different comp levels are run here compared to back home; Masters in Aus - although I think it's had a name change recently - is for those people who have won/placed at advanced level 2-3 times

[David Franklin]

Cos im fed up with building a web page to have it pulled to bit by C2D so we are getting together VERY soon and spending a weekend building it together.

Having just been a witness to the fun of someone building a website for someone else with little communication, I can sympathise.

I will offer you the same. PM me and i will send you the flyer.

Surely it would make a lot more sense for you to post it here rather than send lots of PMs?

Is there an issue with posting the rules here?

[Achaeco]

Having just been a witness to the fun of someone building a website for someone else with little communication, I can sympathise.

Surely it would make a lot more sense for you to post it here rather than send lots of PMs?

Is there an issue with posting the rules here?

At the mo i am just replying to others. Trust me, if I or WEpost the rules we would get banned.

[Gus]

Yes the comp is a 2 tier comp and for many years has been called by entrants "the one to win" so we have put the Masters in place to get the top dancers competing for the highest title. We are taking nothing away from Intermediate and advanced, this is different.

Sorry ... being really slow here .... how is the Masters any different from the current Open? If the existing Blackpool has the 'Best' dancers competing, how can you get 'Better than the Best' competing at a level above. I'm not a competitor, its just morbid curiosity.

[Andy McGregor]

At the mo i am just replying to others. Trust me, if I or WEpost the rules we would get banned.

This is all completely off-topic and, I'm sure will be turned into another thread soon. However, I posted the rules for Britrock on here in 2002 - it was way before the competition: I posted first draft for comment and the experts of the forum helped produce improvements that I'd never have thought of on my own.

However, I think the Forum has changed it's free and easy attitude to this kind of thing since Franck's recalibration and subsequent lust for promotion to assistant dark lord. I think he would see it as advertising.

On the subject of an Independent MJ Association, I mooted the matter about a year ago. The common feeling was, "why?"

I think that an organisation that is set up to defend againt the forces of darkness would be a bitter and twisted one. I'd love to see an organisation that brought together independent MJ organisers under a common umbrella to improve or lot. However, we're all such strong characters I can't see it hapenning - we're all "Dark Lords" and there can be only one!

What I would love to see is a conference of MJ organisers with some of us running sessions on areas of expertise such as, off the top of my head and in no particular order;

Training Staff
Training Teachers
Insurance and Health & Safety
Venue Selection
Promotion & Marketing
Retaining dancers
Organising a fabulous Ball
Sound sytems & lighting
Clothes (I'll do that one)
Shoes (ditto)
Putting together routines week after week
Finance and bookeeping
PPL and MCPS (music copyright and playing music in public)
Running workshops
Dealing with difficult/smelly dancers

I'm sure there's loads more that I could think of as the above list took me about 10 minutes.

If anybody is interested in organising a one day or weekend conference (with a dinner dance), going over things like I've listed above, I'd be happy to work with them. If you're interested, please PM me.

[Achaeco]

Dealing with difficult/smelly dancers...................Ill do that one