View Poll Results: Is the business you work for ethical?

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  • Absolutely

    8 66.67%
  • Sometimes

    1 8.33%
  • Rarely

    1 8.33%
  • They make Poll Pott look like Mother Teressa

    0 0%
  • Who gives a damn!

    2 16.67%
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Thread: Ethical business?

  1. #1
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Ethical business?

    Started thinking about this after comments made re the way business is done in the MJ world. I wonder if people really cared about the business they work for. Look at the likes of BA, Monsanto, Ocean Finance, Dow Chemicals etc. Would you really want to be associated with businesses with such a poor record of ethical behaviour … or does it matter as long as you get your pay check?

  2. #2
    Papa Smurf
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    or does it matter as long as you get your pay check?
    I assume you get paid in dollars

  3. #3
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Would you really want to be associated with businesses with such a poor record of ethical behaviour … or does it matter as long as you get your pay check?
    I definitely would be fussy about businesses I work for. Unfortunately that means I earn pretty poor wages as I prefer 'not for profit' or charity sector employers. (I know some probably pay OK salaries but none of the ones I've worked for!). It limits the choice of jobs I can apply for, I have less money, but I have a sense that what I'm involved with has some wider benefit. (And yes, I know that some very profitable businesses also have wider benefit as well.)

    In fact I'm becoming even fussier I think and my next move will be to somewhere that has as its aims and purpose things which are in line with my own. Doing a job and working for an employer whose goal is something I am passionate about is more important to me than having a large disposable income, most of which I'd probably spend on things I don't really need anyway, and which in 20 years time I won't even remember I had.

    We all have places where we draw the line on our choices in these matters. I do shop in Tescos and the like. Partly that's because my time for using the local shops I'd love to support (and I do live in a 'village' with butcher, baker, greengrocer, small grocery shops) is limited to a Saturday and I can pop into the big stores on an evening.

  4. #4
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    I definitely would be fussy about businesses I work for. Unfortunately that means I earn pretty poor wages as I prefer 'not for profit' or charity sector employers.
    I started with some idea about working for companies I could believe in (I left one job because I had major objections to building PWR reactors)... and that lasted fairly well till I started working for myself. It is a sad fact that the main clients were the big Corporate banks and legal firms ... who really were operating in ways that I was uncomfortable with.

    Thats probably been one of the reason I've will shortly joining the ranks of the wage-slaves again. I'm joining a Bank ... but they are the only ethical bank i the UK .. not owned by shareholders and with a clear mandate to support the community. God willing I may actually to get to do something worthwhile ... hope springs eternal.

  5. #5
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    God willing I may actually to get to do something worthwhile ... hope springs eternal.
    Its not just the ethics of the business you work for as well, there are a lot of roles that are 'worthwhile' - eg being involved in healthcare and education as a couple of examples.

  6. #6
    Registered User Isis's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    I find it very difficult that my job has both a clinical side and a retail side.

    Unfortunately the retail side has almost strangled the clinical side to death. I have always stayed away from companies that are unethical but I'm now rapidly running out of places to work at all!

    Here are a few of the lovely stories that have made me sick to pit of my stomach lately:

    An 83 year old man came in for an eye test. He's never needed glasses because one eye is perfect for distance and the other eye is short sighted so he can see to read with that. I told him (truthfully) that the distance vision has got a bit more blurred. He still doesn't have to wear glasses but if it gets any worse, he would need them for driving in future. As he was leaving I heard the manager telling him he really had to buy glasses as he was illegal for driving without them and was a danger on the road. Thankfully he didn't fall for it.

    A lady in her 80's came in to see me as she had her eyes tested by someone else and wasn't happy with the glasses. Turned out she'd been told she needed stronger specs, but was sold a pair for £270 to exactly the same prescription as her previous ones.

    Anyone have any suggestions for an alternative career?

  7. #7
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    Anyone have any suggestions for an alternative career?
    Plenty, but you might earn a fraction of what you are getting now.

    Ideally I'd love to have an alternative source of income so that I didn't have to 'work' then I could study part time and spend more time working in various voluntary roles.

  8. #8
    Registered User Isis's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Plenty, but you might earn a fraction of what you are getting now.
    Very true.

    If I only had myself to think about, It would be worth it but I have a daughter to support. The plus side of my ill-gotten gains is that I get paid so much I can afford to work part-time and be at home for her as much as possible.

    I suppose I should remember how lucky I am and concentrate on maintaining my own integrity, regardless of what is going on in the rest of the industry.

  9. #9
    Registered User SteveK's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    I started with some idea about working for companies I could believe in (I left one job because I had major objections to building PWR reactors)... and that lasted fairly well till I started working for myself. It is a sad fact that the main clients were the big Corporate banks and legal firms ... who really were operating in ways that I was uncomfortable with.
    It's also how you classify "ethical". I personally wouldn't have any problem working in the UK nuclear industy from an ethical viewpoint, (but might be concerned about my personal safety if working inside reactors). However I've grave concerns about all the wind turbines currently being erected around the UK, and managed to avoid working on any of these windfarm projects.

    Also what should you do if you happen to work for something unethical? If it was a job involving bribery/brown envelopes etc, I'd hope I'd have no compunction in walking away and telling the relevant authorities. However what if things are less clear-cut; do you assume that the project will always go ahead and instead try and make a project more environmentally sustainable from within, or walk away and miss the opportunity to improve things?

  10. #10
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    The plus side of my ill-gotten gains is that I get paid so much I can afford to work part-time and be at home for her as much as possible.
    Being able to work part time and spend time with family is a big plus in any job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    I suppose I should remember how lucky I am and concentrate on maintaining my own integrity, regardless of what is going on in the rest of the industry.
    Sounds like you already do.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveK View Post
    However I've grave concerns about all the wind turbines currently being erected around the UK, and managed to avoid working on any of these windfarm projects.
    Interesting. Why? I know there are issues in siting of windfarms, but as a general principle aren't they a good thing?

  11. #11
    Papa Smurf
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    Here are a few of the lovely stories that have made me sick to pit of my stomach lately
    Yeah, sad. I need to go and get a new eye test but Ill do what i did the last time and buy the actual glasses from glassesdirect.co.uk. They seem really good, the last time an optician actually phoned to double check the prescription before they'd even send the order. Nice!

    Got to admit, last eye check was at vision express and there was a distinct assumption that I would buy glasses from there. I'd much rather shop around as i would with any other purchase.

  12. #12
    Registered User SteveK's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Interesting. Why? I know there are issues in siting of windfarms, but as a general principle aren't they a good thing?
    I've got friends who work for Scottish Natural Heritage, and they would prefer a single nuclear power station compared with the thousands of windfarms over an enormous area required for a similar generating capacity.

    Windfarms have a large impact on the environment:
    The visual impact over an enormous area
    They require a lot of energy to build the turbines, but don't generate that much (and only generate within a certain wind range - if it is too windy or too still they can't be used)
    The impact on the local environment - affect lots of birds and other wildlife (eagles fly into them etc.)

    Whereas a single nuclear power station (e.g. Sizewell B) produces 1200MW continously, even a massive wind farm (e.g. Hadyard Hill Wind Farm) consisting of 52 turbines only produces 120MW, and this power is only generated for a portion of the time (anyone know this?)

  13. #13
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    Re: Ethical business?

    I make my money from personal investments, mainly property and I would consider what I do ethical.

    A friend of mine, who is a strong Christian (maybe no relevance, but it makes a difference to him) and also considers what he does ethical, bought a property from someone who was keen to sell for $250,000 and then sold it on for $350,000 2 weeks later.

    He was told by the agent that he was being un-ethical and should give most of his profit to the original seller.

    I see this as business, it is an open market and people have a choice what they sell an item for, you also have a choice as to how you market and sell again.

    I bought one property for $380,000 from a couple of guys who wanted a quick sale, then re-valued it for $650,000 and increased mortgage, and took all monies put in, plus some, into my bank account... Is this un-ethical or sound business, meeting needs and juggling.

    feel free to disagree...

  14. #14
    Registered User Isis's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Yeah, sad. I need to go and get a new eye test
    I would strongly recommend Asda Opticians as the first choice for an eye test but Vision Express are also very good.

  15. #15
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveK View Post
    Whereas a single nuclear power station (e.g. Sizewell B) produces 1200MW continously, even a massive wind farm (e.g. Hadyard Hill Wind Farm) consisting of 52 turbines only produces 120MW, and this power is only generated for a portion of the time (anyone know this?)
    Urrrr .. think Sizewell B is a bad example. I was project accountant for Sizewell B ... and its the reason I left the Nuclear Industry. Sizewell B is a PWR design (Pressure Water Reactor) ... hopefully the last that will be built ... the same design as 3 Mile Island ... that was the West's worst nuclear disaster. I learnt a lot of things during my time there that gives me grave concerns about building Nuclear power stations. Thinking about it, the real cost was getting on for £2bn back in '86 ... wonder what that is in 2007 money? That could buy a fair few windmills.

  16. #16
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveK View Post
    Windfarms have a large impact on the environment:
    The visual impact over an enormous area
    They require a lot of energy to build the turbines, but don't generate that much (and only generate within a certain wind range - if it is too windy or too still they can't be used)
    The impact on the local environment - affect lots of birds and other wildlife (eagles fly into them etc.)
    I work in the environmental field and I get the impression that a lot of the problems are to do with location and if properly sited they are held to be a useful renewable and environmentally friendly method of producing energy.

  17. #17
    Registered User SteveK's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Urrrr .. think Sizewell B is a bad example. I was project accountant for Sizewell B ... and its the reason I left the Nuclear Industry. Sizewell B is a PWR design (Pressure Water Reactor) ... hopefully the last that will be built ... the same design as 3 Mile Island ... that was the West's worst nuclear disaster. I learnt a lot of things during my time there that gives me grave concerns about building Nuclear power stations. Thinking about it, the real cost was getting on for £2bn back in '86 ... wonder what that is in 2007 money? That could buy a fair few windmills.
    I don't know enough about the relative economic benefits of nuclear vs wind power; I agree that you can buy a fair few windmills for the cost of a nuclear power station. However you do need an awfully large number of windmills to produce the same constant power that Sizewell B produces for the National Grid.

    Incidentally the Wikipedia article on 3 Mile Island (Three Mile Island accident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) states that the scientific view is "that no member of the public was injured by the accident", and hence this probably isn't the best example to use. However the effects of the accident at Chernobyl are well known.

    However decisions relating to ethical business are rarely clear cut, (except for estate agents ) and the ethics of what sources of energy supply are appropriate are best left for another thread.

    I feel that the likes of Monsanto are amongst the worst; can't imagine anyone would be happy with their approaches to the UK political parties.

  18. #18
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    Re: Ethical business?

    In the past I used to work for large organisations doing company secretarial or financially oriented litigation. I got charging orders over their houses and whatever. I was aggressive and altho compassionate I would have loved to have got a super commercial job paying loads-a- money.

    Recently i had an experience that changed my way of thinking. I found (first hand) how a major bank was treating its customers. I was disgusted. It basically ripped customers off by using its own incompetant management systems to its own advantage. You would be amazed if I told you what this bank told its staff. I can't stand big companies making people stupid and then milking them. Just watch independent TV at night and the pathetic so called games of skill. Long live the internet and democracy.

    I never used to be interested in globalisation issues, thinking that the opposers were trendy lefties, anarchists, bored students or unbelieving liberal vicars.

    Now I am interested in globalisation and the rise of multi nationals and yes I do want to get work from the big boys but only in a way that I am comfortable with ethically.Suddenly I realise that I despise multi nationals and the way that they lie to the public, influence the European legislation with their secret cocktail parties in rooms in Brussels where they lobby for policy changes out of self interest etc etc.

    Facism used to be immediately identifiable as the workings out of the insecurities of balding men or men with sungle testicles and moustaches. The new Facism is the power that we give to huge organisations that feed us with their ads, computer software. Giants, princes, powers, emperors that de-personalise the common man and suck in their digits. Yes, the digital word sucks and those that suck, get bigger. Look at your bank accounts, check your mobile balances.

    Or have I been watching too much "Robocop?"

  19. #19
    Registered User KatieR's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Started thinking about this after comments made re the way business is done in the MJ world. I wonder if people really cared about the business they work for. Look at the likes of BA, Monsanto, Ocean Finance, Dow Chemicals etc. Would you really want to be associated with businesses with such a poor record of ethical behaviour … or does it matter as long as you get your pay check?
    Chuck in being totally devoid of a moral centre and you pretty much have the modern jive community in Adelaide.

  20. #20
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Ethical business?

    Quote Originally Posted by KatieR View Post
    Chuck in being totally devoid of a moral centre and you pretty much have the modern jive community in Adelaide.
    That could give rise to a really interesting poll/thread .... rating the moral centre of the various MJ organisations in the UK. That WOULD definitely lead to some fireworks

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