What if. . . ?

[Trousers]

Jive Addiction get bought out by Ceroc?

I've been to a fair few weekenders and all day MJ events in my years of dancing and the times that I really enjoyed these events were when I went to the independents.

My first weekender was a JiveTime Camber - it was great closely followed by a RebelYell (when the Rebels still wore green). Both superb events run by people who knew they had to impress.
More recently I've joined the ever increasing number of JiveAddiction officianados and I've been to a number of Southports as well as Scarborough.

I have also been to two Ceroc events - Breeze and Bliss.

I know this is a Ceroc Forum but these Ceroc events do not meet with the standards that I now expect following some of the brilliant experiences I have had at other weekenders. I'm not going to go into details they did have good moments but the whole always left me thinking there was something missing.

So for me now there can only be one place that I want to spend my money and that's going to be with Wes and John.
I'm not trying to make a big issue over that bit - it is just what it is. My decision will be to stick with what I find hits my buttons and gives me the feelings that I spent my money well.

Anyway I noticed a few hints and whispers in here that JiveTime may now be a Ceroc owned entity. The truth of this I do not claim to know. But if this whisper is true will Ceroc target JiveAddiction?

The thought that I as a punter loose out because we loose the special interest Wes and John seem to put into their events scares me.

Does it scare you?

[Double Trouble]

I don't know Jon and Wes well, but I suspect they do what they do because they enjoy it, as well as making a few quid. I doubt very much they would sell out to Ceroc if they had the chance.

Ceroc can take the lions share if they like, but as you say, everyone knows which weekenders are run the best & will take their money where they like. Ceroc will have to up their game to keep the punters happy.

[Gus]

Jive Addiction get bought out by Ceroc?

[ODA View] - Why buy them out? Ceroc has the market muscle to put JA out of business if they so desire. A few competing events on the same days or the weeks around .... I would imagine that JA's pockets aren't as deep as Ceroc ... who could also make a bid directly to Southport venue....

[ODA other view] IF Ceroc were to buy out JA, how would you value it? They are selling a concept rather than a product. If Ceroc owned JA, 'Southport' as was would cease to exist?

Interesting speculation.

[stewart38]

I know this is a Ceroc Forum but these Ceroc events do not meet with the standards that I now expect following some of the brilliant experiences I have had at other weekenders. I'm not going to go into details they did have good moments but the whole always left me thinking there was something missing.

I think Twirlie Bird sum it up nicely

Bliss. OK here goes.......

Arriving late Saturday afternoon was a very strange experience. There was no atmosphere. There was no buzz. No air of excitement. No main focus point and little groups pf people obviously enjoying themselves. Nothing. Even more than this there was nowhere to dance. Seriously! Both of the dance rooms had classes going on and there was nothing playing in the pub area either. All very weird.

Nothing ‘going on dance wise’ . sure there was a slot later but ………….

[ODA View] - Why buy them out? Ceroc has the market muscle to put JA out of business if they so desire. A few competing events on the same days or the weeks around .... I would imagine that JA's pockets aren't as deep as Ceroc ... who could also make a bid directly to Southport venue....

[ODA other view] IF Ceroc were to buy out JA, how would you value it? They are selling a concept rather than a product. If Ceroc owned JA, 'Southport' as was would cease to exist?

Interesting speculation.

Competing events ? no chance only if ceroc put them at £29. head to head ceroc would end up losers .

Buying power maybe a direct chat with Pontins now that might be different ? Even so JA now have 3 sell out dates

It will be interesting what happens to Franco May and November slots next year

May I guess would be a good one to get

Breeze will be a corner stone as well

[Gus]

It will be interesting what happens to Franco May and November slots next year

Strategically it would make more sense to take out Southport. At one stroke it would take out their major competitor and give Ceroc a real foothold in the N West. Remember, although Ceroc may dominate most parts of the UK, its fairly insignificant up here ... something that I'm sure Ceroc UK would like to rectify.

As we speak, in a secret, small bunker under Ceroc HQ, the Ceroc War cabinet is pushing little markers around the map of the UK, making their plans for the Great Push North .....

[stewart38]

Strategically it would make more sense to take out Southport. At one stroke it would take out their major competitor and give Ceroc a real foothold in the N West. Remember, although Ceroc may dominate most parts of the UK, its fairly insignificant up here ... something that I'm sure Ceroc UK would like to rectify.

As we speak, in a secret, small bunker under Ceroc HQ, the Ceroc War cabinet is pushing little markers around the map of the UK, making their plans for the Great Push North .....

How successful were they in North Wales ?

Any Pontins /Butlins within 50 miles of Southport ?

Need a forumite who has nothing to do , go have a look ?

Gus tell us what you find ?? Im still working on the ocean thing with DJ

[Gus]

How successful were they in North Wales ?

Ceroc has 4 clubs, out of the 20+ in the N West, and none oin N Wales. There are three dance organisations currently fighting it out for dominance there . .. well, sort of. Why the interest in Wales? The N West contains major targets like Manchester and Liverpool ... though the latter has proven as problematic as Stoke to break into.

[Twirly]

It will be interesting what happens to Franco May and November slots next year

May I guess would be a good one to get

Breeze will be a corner stone as well

Well having listened to lots of people talk about "weekender burnout" at Bliss, I suspect that the market might be saturated anyway, particularly at this time of year. Numbers did seemed lower at Bliss even than last year, and I don't think it helps that Breeze is so close to Bliss either. Nothing they can do (at the moment) about Southport being in September, but having three weekenders in the space of about 6 weeks is probably too much of a concentration.

If the Franco slots do become available, maybe Ceroc would try and move Bliss up to November?

Hard for me to comment on SP, not having been, but surely if the punters love it so much, then unless Ceroc HQ do a deal with Pontins regarding exlusivity, I'd have thought it would continue to thrive.

Out of curiousity, are there any other venues other than Pontins that are used? And if there was some sort of exclusivity deal done with Ceroc (they probably do have the buying power now), then what other options would the independents have? Butlins? Centre Parks?

[stewart38]

Ceroc has 4 clubs, out of the 20+ in the N West, and none oin N Wales. There are three dance organisations currently fighting it out for dominance there . .. well, sort of. Why the interest in Wales? The N West contains major targets like Manchester and Liverpool ... though the latter has proven as problematic as Stoke to break into.

They had a weekender there so wondered what the turn out was like

Assume some thread somewhere

Look WHISS at Pontins in Liverpool early June ??

or PISSED early feb on A570 £29 for 4 ?

[TheTramp]

Nothing they can do (at the moment) about Southport being in September, but having three weekenders in the space of about 6 weeks is probably too much of a concentration.

3???

Sept 8 - Southport (well, Southport)
Sept 29 - Bliss (Camber)
Oct 13 - Breeze (Brean Sands)
Oct 27 - Blaze II (Ayr)
Nov 3 - Splash (Blackpool)
Nov 17 - Beach Ballroom Weekend (Aberdeen)

That's just over 2 months, and 6 major dance weekends (I've just listed the Saturday dates).

[Gadget]

[ODA View] - Why buy them out?

I know this is a Ceroc Forum but these Ceroc events do not meet with the standards that I now expect following some of the brilliant experiences I have had at other weekenders.

Isn't that why? You buy people out because you like their product and want it to become your own/add some of your own flavour into it. A buy-out retains most of the client base. A squeeze-out relies on you having to compete, target, under-cut, saboutage, dig big pits and fill with spikes, hire wild dogs and force punters to take sides. Much more risky with much less retention of the customer base.

[ODA other view] IF Ceroc were to buy out JA, how would you value it? They are selling a concept rather than a product. If Ceroc owned JA, 'Southport' as was would cease to exist?

I think that in order to run as it has, with the sucess it has had, they would have to change their DJ and Teaching policy... or broaden them so that "guest" peeps could have some space.

[tsh]

Ceroc might be able to compete on price and number of punters. That leaves plenty of space for others to compete in other ways. Sure Jive Addiction do a good job, but there are bound to be others who would step in if there was a gap in the market.

Put it like this - a free ticket wouldn't persuade me to take 2 days off work and drive 400 miles, but i seriously considered driving to Scotland for the last Mariachi just for 6 hours dancing...

[Lynn]

Sept 29 - Bliss (Camber)
Oct 13 - Breeze (Brean Sands)
Oct 27 - Blaze II (Ayr)
Nov 3 - Splash (Blackpool)

These in particular are all very close, all Ceroc, all booked via the same website, and are in effect competing with one another as most people aren't going to go to all of them. So Ceroc is actually competing with itself for customers, never mind independants.

I certainly heard some folk talking last night about not considering Blaze II because they've already booked for Splash and they are adjacent weekends.

[robd]

Competing events ? no chance only if ceroc put them at £29. head to head ceroc would end up losers .

Utopia moving their Sep event a week forward was a tacit acknowledgement of this albeit Utopia differs from a Ceroc weekender in a number of ways. Am pretty certain Ceroc wouldn't ever go head to head on a weekender with Southport.

I think a more pertinent question is
* If Southport wasn't happening would you spend that time & money attending a Ceroc event instead?
If the answer is no then where's the benefit for Ceroc in stopping Southport happening - whether via a buyout, exclusive deal with Pontins, whatever? For me, because I enjoy dancing first and foremost I'll go to as many weekenders as I can afford regardless of who runs them. If finances get tighter as they are likely to do and I have to ration my weekenders then the 3 Southports would get priority. I posted somewhere else that none of the Ceroc weekenders I have been to has been anywhere near as good as any of the Southports and I stand by that but this is not because Ceroc weekenders are necessarily poor (they're not) it's because Southport beats them in key areas for me - music playing through until breakfast time, US WCS pros teaching, afternoons in the blues room, socialising (BBQ, etc). Others will have different viewpoints.

[Gus]

I think that in order to run as it has, with the sucess it has had, they would have to change their DJ and Teaching policy... or broaden them so that "guest" peeps could have some space.

So are you saying the Ceroc teaching and DJ line up isn't a match? Not sure that I'd agree. With the exception of the lead WCS teachers, the Ceroc events have a strong line up (personally I think the Ceroc line up is better ... but thats because I like to do MJ rather than WCS/Salsa/Tango etc.) As for the DJs, yes SP has a strong line up but Ceroc has some strong DJs as well. I don't think the DJs and teachers are the problem for Ceroc. I think SP has created an expectation/vibe/buzz at their freestyles ... people go because of the people going ... hence its a self perpetuating success story. THAT will be hard to breakdown and beat.

[Achaeco]

[ODA View] - Why buy them out? Ceroc has the market muscle to put JA out of business if they so desire. A few competing events on the same days or the weeks around .... I would imagine that JA's pockets aren't as deep as Ceroc ... who could also make a bid directly to Southport venue....

[ODA other view] IF Ceroc were to buy out JA, how would you value it? They are selling a concept rather than a product. If Ceroc owned JA, 'Southport' as was would cease to exist?

Interesting speculation.

You would be a fool to underestimate John an Wes. Both are very good at buisiness.
Its not a case of putting a few event on the same weekend, any mj'er would prefer ja to Ceroc.

[Lynn]

I think SP has created an expectation/vibe/buzz at their freestyles ... people go because of the people going ... hence its a self perpetuating success story. THAT will be hard to breakdown and beat.

'Beat' - yes - by all means, if someone has a good product, then go out and create an even better one, offer something better to the customers. And gain respect and credit for doing so.

'Breakdown and beat' - sorry but that just pathetic. What a poor way to do business, what a fast way to lose respect.

I know that some local organisers have in the past resorted to these sorts of tactics but I'd be very saddened to see them come into play on the weekender scene.

[Achaeco]

Ceroc will (as any good buisiness would) try and sqeeze the oppersition.
The downside to this is (imho) if they do sqeeze and sqeeze, do Ceroc have the fire power to take on all the independents?
I can think of two who if they had too and merged or worked together would have enough fire to take on Ceroc, then if you add the smaller ones, how big would it get?

People underestimate Blitz and Jive Addiction.

Also would you be happy if Ceroc did try to rule the world by buying out everyone? surly the more varied MJ the better.

[David Bailey]

Well having listened to lots of people talk about "weekender burnout" at Bliss, I suspect that the market might be saturated anyway, particularly at this time of year.

Frankly, I think there are too many big autumn weekenders at the moment - in the space of 3 months (Sept - Nov) you have:

• Southport
• Bliss
• Breeze
• Camber
• Scarborough
• Splash
• Blaze

The market simply isn't big enough for all of these to be sold out - look at the recent spate of "Breeze chalets for sale" ads, for example.

If the Franco slots do become available, maybe Ceroc would try and move Bliss up to November?

That would seem to be a good plan - it'll give a bit more breathing space between the two Ceroc weekenders in the South.

Hard for me to comment on SP, not having been, but surely if the punters love it so much, then unless Ceroc HQ do a deal with Pontins regarding exlusivity, I'd have thought it would continue to thrive.

Indeed. If it offers high-quality product, it'll continue to be successful.

Out of curiousity, are there any other venues other than Pontins that are used?

Pontins are the best choice for large-scale weekenders - I don't think there are that many other types of venue that could work for weekenders, Centre Park's far too expensive.

[David Bailey]

Also would you be happy if Ceroc did try to rule the world by buying out everyone? surly the more varied MJ the better.

I suspect if this did happen, then Ceroc itself would offer different products aimed at different markets, so you'd still get varied MJ.

In fact, I know this would happen, because it's already happening.

Dancing isn't mandatory (for most people), it's a luxury - you have to offer value and quality or people simply won't come. So that's always going to be an incentive driving any dance business.

If Ceroc ran the MJ world exclusively, then they'd still have to offer variety and quality - if they didn't, their business would suffer.