![$vboptions[bbtitle]](images/master_col.bmp)
Reply With QuoteThats genious that is.Originally Posted by Raul
XXX XXX DTS Dave
At a non MJ dance school i attend, we have concurrent lessons for each level. At the end of the lessons, all students get together and the teacher will purposely pair off dancers of different levels for the first two dances of freestyle and instruct mix them to dance simple and well.I used to ask the Gods as a beginner, but that was because I was taken there by a man, who didn't know who the best leads were.
If I had known who was who I wouldn't have had the nerve probably.
Sometimes it pays to be innocent.
Beginners can get away with a lot.
Thats genious that is.
XXX XXX DTS Dave
<football chant> Are you Stewart38 in disguise...etc...</football chant>
err. I tend to read and change what I type a lot rather than just type as I would speak.
Do you always look at the wrapping rather than the contents? What's wrong with Stewart38?
Though most of the time our teachers mention this anyway "we have taxi dancers who are there to help but you should ask anyone to dance".
More to the point, how would you suggest going about telling beginners this? Should the teacher state that beginners shouldn't dance with other beginners because "you all suck and you'll teach each other bad habits" (hardly seems a welcoming statement). If you come as a beginner couple should you not dance with each other? How do you convince a lot of intermediates that it is worth their time to forgo the intermediate class to do the beginner revision? If all the experienced dancers seem to be busy should a beginner sit out rather than dance with another beginner?
I'm not sure Raul was actually advocating actively telling beginners not to dance with other beginners - though I guess that is exactly what this thread title is doing!
Suppose I go to a dance class in Outer Hebridean Three Step. It's unclear to me how I might follow your advice not to dance with beginners, without avoiding dancing with beginners. Perhaps you could enlighten me?
Certainly a point with other dances such as WCS.
But I'd question it applies anything like as much to modern jive.
Isn't one of the points of modern jive that is asks so much less of beginner dancers - they don't risk losing the footwork with a partner to worry about.
Do not dance with beginners ....
A few of you appear to have an issue with this statement.
Many of the replies have been from an experienced dancer viewpoint about experienced dancers dancing with beginners and with everyone for that matter.
Some of the replies have been made on the wrong assumption that I am encouraging beginners not to dance with other beginners even if no experienced dancer is free.
These replies are off the mark and do not relate to the main issue which is that beginners progress faster if they get dancing experience from better dancers in addition to taxi dancers.
The statement was to get beginners to push beyond the barrier of dancing only with other beginners, which is so frequently the case.
One of my non MJ teachers puts it this way - Because you are all very new, for the first few weeks you will be dancing like Pinnochio but you will soon get past this stage. I would encourage you to dance as much as possible with more experienced dancers. When dancing with other new beginners you will be like Pinnochio and his girlfriend, not knowing who is doing what and why.
Beginners will be still be dancing with beginners anyway because their natural inclination is to do so, they are sharing a new experience together, like people on a foreign holiday. The task at hand is not to encourage them to keep their dancing only within this group, but to make the extra step.
Oh, no. I'm just looking for more information on how I can apply your excellent advice when I go to my next Outer Hebridean Three Step class.
For example, as a beginner in Three Step, if a fellow beginner asks me to dance, what's the best way to turn her down so I can ask the intermediate chick at the bar to dance? I mean, obviously I don't want to be dancing with a beginner when there are other dancers available, as you say. Should I tell her that dancing with me will probably be depressing enough that it'll make her want to give up completely? Or would a simple "No, thank you" be more appropriate?
Then why not simply say that?
Why not say what others have said which is that beginners should dance both with other beginners, as they will do, and more experienced dancers? I think that is why people are responding as they are as you have actually titled your thread 'do not dance with beginners'.
No has ever advocated that beginners should only ever dance with beginners, in fact at every class I've been to the beginners have been actively encouraged to ask the taxis, the teacher and demo, and more experienced dancers. That is pretty much the norm and other experienced dancers like myself will go a step further and make sure we ask the beginners (I esp do this at a freestyle party night as there is no revision class or taxis on duty).
I'm just a little confused why we need a thread telling beginners not to dance with other beginners? I'm not having a go, I'm genuinely curious as to why this thread was started.
Thank you very much MartinHarper.
As to your needing "my excellent advice" when you go to your next "Outer Hebridean Three Step class", I shall just pass.
I find your sarcasm as amusing as your interpretation that my original statement meant "turn down beginners who ask you" as opposed to "do not ask beginners to dance if you have a choice of who to ask", which was the intention.
I have learnt on this thread that the word "Beginner" is as emotive as the words "Children" or "Christianity".
Well chaps who instinctively leap in and assume the worst, I am giving you the opportunity to express your pent up emotions on the matter, at no charge.
Ditto to that, plus have fun.
With you on this one. I read your opening to the thread as you intended. However, there are many emotive issues on the forum and many more to come.Thank you very much MartinHarper.
As to your needing "my excellent advice" when you go to your next "Outer Hebridean Three Step class", I shall just pass.
I find your sarcasm as amusing as your interpretation that my original statement meant "turn down beginners who ask you" as opposed to "do not ask beginners to dance if you have a choice of who to ask", which was the intention.
I have learnt on this thread that the word "Beginner" is as emotive as the words "Children" or "Christianity".
Well chaps who instinctively leap in and assume the worst, I am giving you the opportunity to express your pent up emotions on the matter, at no charge.
You could always refer her to this post, that should put her off.
Why? I'm really confused here as to the point of this thread.I have learnt on this thread that the word "Beginner" is as emotive as the words "Children" or "Christianity".
Well chaps who instinctively leap in and assume the worst, I am giving you the opportunity to express your pent up emotions on the matter, at no charge.
When its clearly said from the stage every week, after the beginner class, after the revision class, when there are taxis brought up on stage, wearing a uniform and in a designated area - from all these things, its clear that beginners are already very much encouraged to ask more experienced dancers. Add to that the 'non crew' experienced dancers who actively seek out beginners (and we have a few at our venues, guys who look round to make sure ladies get at least one dance with a more experienced lead etc) and I think that the general message already is to not only dance with other beginners but have a few dances with more experienced dancers.
So why does it need to be an issue to specifically tell them not to dance with other beginners?
Beginners should dance with beginners. And everyone else, but here are a couple of reasons for specifically dancing with other beginners:
- They are at the same level as you; you don't really expect them to get it all right and they don't expect you to get it all right.
- You can pool resources and come up with a question for someone more experianced that can help you.
- It can highlight problems both of you are having and you are more inclined to talk with your partner to work out why and how to fix it than you would be with someone who's been going longer.
- It forms more of a 'bond' with someone when you have something in common, and this is primaraly a social activity after all.
- You can (at a later date) have a common ground to judge how much you/your partner have/has improved.
Human nature? Beginners will naturally tend to dance with other beginners. Make a decree that they must not dance with beginners, and they will be more likely to try to dance with more experienced dancers. And every time they dance with a beginner, guilt will prompt them to ask a more advanced person to dance. So they dance more with better dancers, and so they progress faster.
Except for the ones for whom the guilt is too much. They danced with a beginner, not an advanced dancer. Oh, the shame! They cannot possibly return next week.
So they don't.
We're talking about people who have been attending class for just a few weeks.
Yes, there are beginners who want to progress quickly - I know I did and I asked the teacher for a dance most weeks (being the only experienced lead there!) and wanted him to lead moves I didn't know so that I would make sure I was following.
But the average beginner, is often happy enough to get through that nights routine, have a few dances with taxis, have a few dances with their friends (who may be fellow beginners), and maybe chat and make some new friends. I really don't think the first few weeks is when we want to be pressuring people to worry about 'making faster progress', I think the focus is on them enjoying the evening and feeling they are going at their own pace.
As I've already mentioned, the whole way an average night is run encourages beginners to dance with more experienced dancers - why isn't that enough? Why the need to tell them not to dance with other beginners?
As a female follow, I would state that even on your FIRST night as a beginner, with the right lead (no, not another beginner) you can have the dance of your life.
So go on girls, get asking.
What's it like for the beginner men?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks