The road to Ceroc.

[DavidB]

Originally posted by horsey_dude
I can't wait to go to hamersmith and see the refusal row for myself. The fact that I am coming from the other side of the world to see this for myself qualifies it as an international tourist attraction!

You don't need to travel that far. I've been turned down 3 times in the last few months - twice by Australian ladies...

David

[TheTramp]

Oh. I get turned down all the time....especially by people I don't know.

I think that they just look and see some fat, ugly, bald bloke. Decide that I obviously can't dance, and make some excuse (I'm sorry, I have to wash my hair). It used to bother me. It doesn't any more. I just usually go and find someone I dance with really well, and then go and dance right in front of them

A friend and I often have a competition at dances. Winner being the one who gets turned down most in one night.

Steve

[Fran]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Oh. I get turned down all the time....especially by people I don't know.

Steve

Their loss honey!!!!

franx

[Gary]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Oh. I get turned down all the time....especially by people I don't know.

...

A friend and I often have a competition at dances. Winner being the one who gets turned down most in one night.

Steve

Around here, good guy dancers barely get to sit down, let alone get turned down.

[TheTramp]

Around here, good guy dancers barely get to sit down, let alone get turned down.

But I'm just a beginner!!!

I tend to travel around a lot, so I do often end up at venues where I don't know a lot of people. And they don't know me. At the start of the evening at least!

Steve

PS. Thanks Fran. I love you too!!

[LilyB]

Originally posted by gcapell


Around here, good guy dancers barely get to sit down, let alone get turned down.

If you are observant, you will also notice that it is a certain type of female dancers who appear to 'monopolise' these good guy dancers ie. the guys hardly ever get a chance to dance with other women whom they might perhaps have wanted to dance with eg. beginners & un-pushy women, because these certain females actually follow the guys around the dance floor so that they can nip in as soon as the guy has finished his dance with his previous partner, even before he can ask that partner for a second dance. It can be rather disconcerting, hence I never try to hang on to a partner who obviously has his 'groupies' waiting for him - I'd rather give up a second dance than prevent another (desperate? ) woman from dancing with him! It is a very sad fact (I have found) that as a female dancer, unless you are prepared to be pushy, you will almost never get the opportunity to dance with the 'good guy dancers'. They certainly won't be asking you - they never get the chance to.

As a very sad git, I normally sit in a part of the hall well away from the stage area where all the 'good' dancers congregate. I know it is pointless sitting near them - they hardly ever ask me to dance, for reasons already mentioned, and because it is even rarer for me to ask them (that's because I'm shy - honest!). Just as an example, I was at Fulham Town Hall a little while ago and had all of 2 dances over a one hour period during freestyle, and both the dances were with a beginner who probably asked me because he felt sorry for me! Occasions like that make me feel like giving up dancing - worse, in my view than being turned down for a dance. These days it is extremely rare for me to go dancing without David as then I can at least be assured of getting a few dances during the course of the evening!

I enjoy dancing very much - indeed I am passionate about it. But I find it rather sad that the Ceroc dance scene, especially around London, has become so divisive & clique-y, that a lone female dancer like myself - who is polite, no ogre, doesn't smell, doesn't drip sweat & can usually follow most leads - cannot get to dance with the good guys (or, for that matter, even the better guys) for at least a couple of tracks per night. I wonder if the situation is the same in Scotland, or elsewhere?

So, you guys who complain about "Refusal Row" and ladies who turn you down - just spare a thought for those of us ladies who very very very rarely get to dance with the likes of Viktor, Clayton, James, Ray, Mick, Nigel et al - because of the competition from our own sex!

LilyB

[Fran]

Originally posted by LilyB
......... It can be rather disconcerting, hence I never try to hang on to a partner who obviously has his 'groupies' waiting for him - I'd rather give up a second dance than prevent another (desperate? ) woman from dancing with him! .........

Occasions like that make me feel like giving up dancing - worse, in my view than being turned down for a dance. These days it is extremely rare for me to go dancing without David as then I can at least be assured of getting a few dances during the course of the evening! ...........

I enjoy dancing very much - indeed I am passionate about it. But I find it rather sad that the Ceroc dance scene, especially around London, has become so divisive & clique-y, that a lone female dancer like myself - who is polite, no ogre, doesn't smell, doesn't drip sweat & can usually follow most leads - cannot get to dance with the good guys (or, for that matter, even the better guys) for at least a couple of tracks per night. I wonder if the situation is the same in Scotland, or elsewhere?


LilyB

thankfully, I dont think it is as bad up here in Scotland Lily- (please correct me if I am wrong people up here), but I identify with you on several issues.,

The best time I had ( apart from Beach Boogie) when Bill and I have visited other clubs down south was at Boden this summer because it was the first time I had ever be asked to dance so often by so many men I did not know ( and they were quite fabby dancers too!!) I really like traveling and visiting other clubs but as I am also quite shy in new company, far to self- concious about getting my lefts & rights mixed up and also simply not forward enough, I do not get asked to dance often. I realise that this can be interpreted as being aloof and arguably it could be said that it is our fault if we are not pushy enough, however if it is not in your nature you cant pretend to be somthing you are not. I am very lucky that there are some lovely dancers up here with whom I dance regulary and feel comfortable with so I can get my fix.

If you guys come back up to Scotland I am sure that you will have loads and loads of dances with everyone. I think it would be safe to say that we are all pretty welcoming.


fran

[Gary]

Originally posted by LilyB
... these certain females actually follow the guys around the dance floor so that they can nip in as soon as the guy has finished his dance with his previous partner, even before he can ask that partner for a second dance.

That sounds very rude.

[woodworm2k]

I was on holiday in Lanzarote a couple of years ago. The most unlikely man asked this absolutely dishy girl if she could jive.
She was astounded as everyone else in the company that he was even asking. He got her onto the dancefloor and we all sat open mouthed whilst he "performed".
They were brilliant and I thought to myself, I wish............
2 years later i was recalling the event to someone who then told me about Ceroc. I started in Nov. 2002 and I'm loving it.
I am looking forward to the time when I can shock a group of friends in the same way as the man in Lanzarote.

[horsey_dude]

Originally posted by woodworm2k
I was on holiday in Lanzarote a couple of years ago. The most unlikely man asked this absolutely dishy girl if she could jive.

Why was he unlikely?

[Tiggerbabe]

I'm glad someone else asked that question

And could she? - jive that is......

And was she still astounded at his audacity when she came off the dance floor?

[TheTramp]

Unlikely....

He looked like me??

Steve

[woodworm2k]

Originally posted by horsey_dude
Why was he unlikely?

He was very quiet and hadn't danced at all the rest of the time we were there. He looked more the ballroom type I suppose.
Just goes to show , You can't judge a book by its cover.

[woodworm2k]

Originally posted by Sheena
I'm glad someone else asked that question

And could she? - jive that is......

And was she still astounded at his audacity when she came off the dance floor?

She was brilliant, they both were. They got a huge round of applause.
It inspired me to start Ceroc and I will be happy if I ever get to be half as good as they were.

What made you start Ceroc and how long have you been dancing?

[JamesGeary]

Originally posted by LilyB

So, you guys who complain about "Refusal Row" and ladies who turn you down - just spare a thought for those of us ladies who very very very rarely get to dance with the likes of Viktor, Clayton, James, Ray, Mick, Nigel et al - because of the competition from our own sex!

LilyB

Errrr.... for some reason ...... I don't know why ..... I find this hysterically funny.

More than funny actually. The poors things must all be intimidated by you. Lucky for me I asked you to dance ehh

[Jon]

Originally posted by LilyB
You will almost never get the opportunity to dance with the 'good guy dancers'. They certainly won't be asking you - they never get the chance to.

I really felt for you Lily when reading your post. It is true that the good dancers get pounced on by women but I dont think its because the good men are clique-y and just dance with people they know. I think it's that the good men want to dance with other ladys but won't turn someone down when asked after all we are gentlemen! Also the fact is that there are alot more good women out there than good men so these men are going to be in demand.

If you ever go to Charlton, Welling or Bromley I'd love to dance with you.

[LilyB]

Originally posted by Jon
I really felt for you Lily when reading your post. It is true that the good dancers get pounced on by women but I dont think its because the good men are clique-y and just dance with people they know. I think it's that the good men want to dance with other ladys but won't turn someone down when asked after all we are gentlemen! Also the fact is that there are alot more good women out there than good men so these men are going to be in demand.

If you ever go to Charlton, Welling or Bromley I'd love to dance with you.

Thank you Jon. David has been to your Charlton venue and says everyone there was very friendly, so we are likely to drop in one day.

My previous post was, of course, sent in early December and since then, things have changed a little. For one thing, I have been out dancing a lot more and have become more recognisable ie. men now know that I won't devour them and that I can dance a bit. It still hasn't made things easy though - all the good men are perpetually being monopolised by a select group of women, and unless you are prepared to barge in and actively ask for a dance, or are willing to hang around near them for ages in the hope of getting noticed, you will NOT be asked. Whilst I have been fortunate lately in getting some excellent dances with Viktor, Clayton, Nigel, Amir and James, those dances are few and far between.

I also feel it is not true to say that the "good" men are so much in demand because they are outnumbered by the "good" women. It is more accurate to say that the "good" men are so much in demand because they are constantly being targetted by women, period.

It is perhaps a good thing that I do not have high expectations (of being asked to dance) when I am out social dancing, otherwise I would have given up in desperation a long time ago. Or maybe the answer lies in entering competitions - that way you can at least be certain your partner for the competition will dance with you a lot more than he otherwise would have!

LilyB

[Diane]

Most times it seems to me that if you want to dance, you need to ask. No good just waiting, a lot of the time the change of partner at the end of a track happens
quickly and if you're not active you won't get a dance. I guess this is more so when there are lots of ladies, but anyway I think guys like to be asked as much as girls do.

[PeterL]

Originally posted by LilyB

I also feel it is not true to say that the "good" men are so much in demand because they are outnumbered by the "good" women. It is more accurate to say that the "good" men are so much in demand because they are constantly being targetted by women, period.
LilyB

Lily, I have to say that you manage to make the simple act of asking men to dance sound sinister. At the end of the day whether men or women the better dancers get asked to dance. I like to think that everyone at ceroc gets to dance but if you particularly want to dance with certain individuals, then "target" ask them.

You can't expect them to either say no when they are asked or the women who ask them to stop "targetting" them.

[Emma]

Originally posted by Diane
Most times it seems to me that if you want to dance, you need to ask.

I feel for you Lily, I really do..

I very rarely get asked to dance, and ocasionally I try and work out why. Is it my dancing? Is it my face? Do I have bad breath? The other thing that I have occasionally done is to spend an evening waiting to get asked before I dance. Generally the result of this is that I don't get to dance a whole lot and go home feeling vaguely miserable.

My solution to this has been to take a deep breath and ASK. Actually I hate doing it, but I want to dance, so dammit I have to. There's a whole bunch of women who are going to get in there first if I don't. I can sit at the side feeling like they are in some undefinable way better than me or I can stick my neck out. I choose the latter. When I started dancing I had to have a drink before I could do it. Luckily at my regular venues I know lots of people now, so I do get to dance with my friends and asking is a lot easier.

I personally think this situation is a lot to do with the fact that there are more women out there dancing than there are men. I went to Rochester the other week and couldn't get a dance for love nor money..and I was asking too. There were simply many more women than men there. My other solution has been to learn some man moves so that I can dance with my girlfriends. That way neither of us feels like a wallflower.

Well, that's my rant over ... anyone fancy a dance?