What does it mean to be a Christian

[Double Trouble]

whats more important .. this mere flicker of time we spend in this existence or the eternity in the afterlife? If you seriously believed that your path to eternal salvation would be lost if you had a blood transfusion ... wouldn't you take your chances and refuse it?

After life?

You mean worm fodder, surely?

I can't answer your question because I don't believe in any type of afterlife.

[Gus]

After life?

You mean worm fodder, surely?

Isn't the fundamental pint of being a Christian, and hence this thread, a belief in the afterlife. If I believed that 'you're born, you live, you die' was all there is ... I think I would feel a little empty. Like many others I believe in an afterlife .... just not entirely sure about the rules of the game to get there though

[Double Trouble]

Like many others I believe in an afterlife

Why?



Sorry if you have answered this before. Please feel free to link me to your answer elsewhere rather than repeating yourself.

[Gus]

Why?

Ask Barry ... he seems to have the answer to such questions ....

Although your question is but one word, the answer could take many volumes and lifetimes to explain properly ...

[Double Trouble]

Although your question is but one word, the answer could take many volumes and lifetimes to explain properly ...

Well, even if you could give me proof in one sentance it still stands that the woman who died instead of taking blood is selfish.

You are basically saying that she choose eternal salvation even though she had no firm evidence that it existed, over being a parent to her twins. Selfish Bitch..!

[Gus]

Well, even if you could give me proof in one sentance it still stands that the woman who died instead of taking blood is selfish.

Many people die for far lesser causes than the belief in eternal redemption. There are mothers serving out in Iraq who know they face death and leaving their children behind. That is a choice of duty over parentage ... is that selfish too?

[Double Trouble]

Many people die for far lesser causes than the belief in eternal redemption. There are mothers serving out in Iraq who know they face death and leaving their children behind. That is a choice of duty over parentage ... is that selfish too?

You can't compare the two. Women who choose to work to provide for their family, regardless of their job is an entirely different debate.

In the link that Barry provided it said this;

In 2004 The Watchtower Society, the official body representing Jehovah's Witnesses, did however notify its members that fractions from each of these, including red blood cells without a membrane, can be used in medical procedures according to a Witness's own conscience.

So there was another option available to her. She could of had eternal redemption AND been a parent.

[Barry Shnikov]

Although I TOTALLY disagree with their interpretation of the Bible ..... whats more important .. this mere flicker of time we spend in this existence or the eternity in the afterlife? If you seriously believed that your path to eternal salvation would be lost if you had a blood transfusion ... wouldn't you take your chances and refuse it?

Isn't the issue as to the reasonableness or otherwise of that belief?

[Barry Shnikov]

Isn't the fundamental pint of being a Christian

The fundamental pint?

NOW YOU'RE TALKING!

Get 'em in chum and I'll be along to church at 6.30!!

[Barry Shnikov]

Ask Barry ... he seems to have the answer to such questions ....

Although your question is but one word, the answer could take many volumes and lifetimes to explain properly ...

"Why does X believe in the afterlife?"

Nope. That is one question to which I do not have the answer. Speculation and theories only. (That's not theory as in 'the theory of evolution', either, just in case...)

[Barry Shnikov]

Well, even if you could give me proof in one sentance it still stands that the woman who died instead of taking blood is selfish.

You are basically saying that she choose eternal salvation even though she had no firm evidence that it existed, over being a parent to her twins. Selfish Bitch..!

Blimey! Steady on!

You'll be taking my crown as 'Most abrasive person on the forum' if you're not careful!

[Double Trouble]

Blimey! Steady on!

You'll be taking my crown as 'Most abrasive person on the forum' if you're not careful!

Well, I wouldn't go as far as to say all all believers are as thick as two short planks stuck together with stupid glue () but this woman and her husband have clearly had a 'common sense' reduction at the plastic religion hospital.

[Caro]

You are basically saying that she choose eternal salvation even though she had no firm evidence that it existed, over being a parent to her twins. Selfish Bitch..!

but basically

If you seriously believed that your path to eternal salvation would be lost if you had a blood transfusion ... wouldn't you take your chances and refuse it?

it does raise the question of gullibility, indoctrination and manipulation though.

In particular in the following statement:
A spokeswoman from the British Medical Association told The Times: “It’s a tragic case but its cut and dried from where we are standing. The doctors’ hands are tried (I assume they mean tied ). Competent adults have the right to refuse any medical treatment even if that refusal results in permanent physical injury or death. I am sure the doctors will have done all they can do to try to persuade this woman or her family to allow the blood transfusion but you can’t force someone to. To do so would be against the Human Rights Act.”

I'd question if the term competent can be applied to those who took the decision not to transfuse.

[Andy McGregor]

I'd question if the term competent can be applied to those who took the decision not to transfuse.

Those Seventh Day Adventists make my blood boil. I think I'm now on a black-list as they never come to my house. I regards their visits to me as a test of their faith and an opportunity to preach change. I ask them to consider any other religion - at least any one that doesn't preach something which causes death. When they ask me what I mean I ask them it they can give me a yes or no answer to the question "are there children of Jehova's Witnesses who would be alive if it wasn't for the beliefs of their parents". I actually had one guy give up and walk to the corner of the street to wait for his colleague who was doing the houses on the other side of the street.

[Twirly]

Well, even if you could give me proof in one sentance it still stands that the woman who died instead of taking blood is selfish.

You are basically saying that she choose eternal salvation even though she had no firm evidence that it existed, over being a parent to her twins. Selfish Bitch..!

Although I think the woman's decision was misguided (can't think of a stronger word at the moment), I can sort of see why she made it, and I think it was the opposite of selfishness, but it's hard to see that if you have no faith (I used to when I was younger, but lost it about age 16). I hasten to add that I'm not advocating what I'm outlining below...

If she truely believes that the blood transfusion would save her physical body, but damn her soul to hell forever, then in order to be a good parent and lead by example, she would have to refuse. If she took the blood transfusion, how could she ever teach her children about her faith and have them believe in it? And if she didn't, then in her view, she would also be damning them to hell forever too. And clearly, if you believe in an afterlife that will run for eternity, then that has to be the most important consideration when looking at the welfare of your children.

To me, that seems short-sighted and blinkered, since I only really believe in now (this exact moment in time - although Beo would doubt that the amount of planning I make him do ). But in terms of faith, I can see why it would make sense. Sadly.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Well, I wouldn't go as far as to say all all believers are as thick as two short planks stuck together with stupid glue ()

you just did

[Gus]

it does raise the question of gullibility, indoctrination and manipulation though.

So does "fighting for your country/cause/rights" etc. Its always very easy to criticise someone else's viewpoint and not see the potential flaws in your own view (re log in eye etc re Bible). For example .... those that work in the oil industry ... are they heroes for supplying us much needed energy supplies or are they exploiting Mother Earth, causing global warming and destroying your children's birthright? Your choice of view?

Over the last view years I've had to deal with some heavy challenges on a number of viewpoints I held and so try not to write off someone else's viewpoint ... with varying degrees of success.

[Gus]

To me, that seems short-sighted and blinkered.

Hmmmmm ... isn't that the last thing she was being?

[Double Trouble]

Hmmmmm ... isn't that the last thing she was being?

No, she WAS being short sighted and blinkered. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if she was a compulsive gambler with a penchant for scratch cards. Who in their right mind would gamble, what could be their only stab at life, in the hope that their might be an afterlife?

[Twirly]

Hmmmmm ... isn't that the last thing she was being?

Did you read the rest of my post?

I made it obvious (I thought ) that I was stating my beliefs at the end there (mostly so that no-one would think that I agreed with what she'd done). The entire rest of my post was outlining why it did make sense and was the entire opposite of selfish (and so not short-sighted) in her view.