What does it mean to be a Christian

[Gus]

Are you on facebook? A social network is a great place to meet the like minded - and if you want some new introductions i have some extremely religious friends

Hmmm facebook .... I think its fair to say I have some fairly 'unchristian' thoughts about it (suppresses need to shout "Get a LIFE!") Funnily enough ... seem to be lot of religious people at Churches and Alpha courses

[David Franklin]

I didn't say they were

OK, sorry. It wasn't terribly clear though - I thought you were still replying to my "do you consider the Amish to be Christians?" question.

I have my own views on what it means to be a christian, and am brutally aware that I fall well short of that benchmark. However, I have some good role models both within and without the dance world so I just keep plugging away.

Personally, I tend to agree with you that it's what you do that should be important. And I think if you look at the actions of the vast majority of Christians in this country, they do their faith credit. On the other hand, so do most people of other faiths (or agnostics/atheists, for that matter).

I do think it's a mistake to look for "ideal" Christians and say "Look! X is a great man, and he's a Christian, how can you be against Christianity?". Because if you do, you have to accept the right of others to say "Ah, but Y is responsible for the deaths of 1000s of innocents, and he's a Christian". Overall, I suspect the balance is not in favour of Christianity.

But to paraphrase Larry Niven: "there's no cause so noble that you won't find tyrants espousing it".

My group should be fun, one very strong agnostic and a research scientist who is a Muslim. Some excellent pints made by both.

Alcohol free I assume?

[andystyle]

They are Christians as they think they are. They may not be considered Christians by every other group of Christians, but that doesnt mean they are not. Their beliefs stem from the same source, so what else would they be called ?

The majority of Christian denominations hold to the same major beliefs, with their differences tending to be down to relatively 'small' things - do we baptise infants? Do we baptise by immersion? Do we tithe? Etc. With groups such as the Mormons, although their faith stems from the Bible, their theology is markedly different from mainstream Christianity, and therein lies the rub.

Their beliefs do stem from the same source as mainstream Christianity. If you go back far enough in the Bible, you'd see that there are two groups of people that are around today who's beliefs come from the same source but are quite different faiths - Christians and Jews.

[Raul]

I do think it's a mistake to look for "ideal" Christians and say "Look! X is a great man, and he's a Christian, how can you be against Christianity?". Because if you do, you have to accept the right of others to say "Ah, but Y is responsible for the deaths of 1000s of innocents, and he's a Christian". Overall, I suspect the balance is not in favour of Christianity.

I agree.

Unfortunately we often use the easy, lazy way of compartmentalising and prejudging by the use of labels - He is a Christian, She is an Eastern European. It is as if there is only one aspect to this whole personality and it is confined to our idea of whatever that label means.

Everyone is potentially able to do enormous good or harm. Many are surprised to find that, say the Umpa Lumpa, once you get to know them have exactly the same feelings as us, well Doh!

In my thinking, to be a Christian should be a way of life, a reflection on one's actions to try and veer towards good rather than harm. It does not mean that this person is necessarily better or worse than another one. A non-Christian can behave in that way too.

[David Bailey]

Coffee machine's fixed now.

Whew.

[David Franklin]

Coffee machine's fixed now.

Your prayers were answered then, I take it?

Whew.

Alleluia, surely?

[David Bailey]

Your prayers were answered then, I take it?

Yeah, the God Of Fuses, otherwise known as one of the developers, turned up to fix the plug. It's a miracle!

[David Franklin]

Yeah, the God Of Fuses, otherwise known as one of the developers, turned up to fix the plug. It's a miracle!

You let a developer fiddle with hardware?

And nobody died?

Verily, thou walketh through the valley of death, and thou fearest no evil, for thou art the BOFH...

[Dreadful Scathe]

You let a developer fiddle with hardware?

And nobody died?

Hmm - he hasn't said if he's started drinking yet. Get the defibrillator out now...

[Dreadful Scathe]

Their beliefs do stem from the same source as mainstream Christianity. If you go back far enough in the Bible, you'd see that there are two groups of people that are around today who's beliefs come from the same source but are quite different faiths - Christians and Jews.

and Muslims...

...and if you go back pre-christianity - you'll find lots of similarities with all earlier religions ; monotheistic or otherwise

[David Franklin]

Hmm - he hasn't said if he's started drinking yet.

Good point. And it's now been 10 minutes without him posting.

I think we have to assume the worst...

[David Bailey]

You let a developer fiddle with hardware?

Why do you think I was praying?

[David Franklin]

Why do you think I was praying?

He's alive! It's a miracle!

[Dreadful Scathe]

He's alive! It's a miracle!

witch and travesty against god

or

godly miracle and rebirth ?

its a fine, fine line

burn him or praise him....a poll anyone ?

[Gus]

and Muslims...

...and if you go back pre-christianity - you'll find lots of similarities with all earlier religions ; monotheistic or otherwise

One thing I've been thinking about is something my Muslim partner-in-crime said. He said that the ONE question that a Muslim is not allowed to ask is "Who made God"? Its one question that I tend to shy away form because the ramifications are so big I don't think the human mind can cope without feeling a certain amount of fear/terror. I remember asking my Mum this question when I was about 6 .. still waiting for a good answer.

[David Franklin]

witch and travesty against god

or

godly miracle and rebirth ?

its a fine, fine line

Not when he's a moderator it isn't!

(I love the way that sentence can be taken in two completely different ways...)

[bigdjiver]

One thing I've been thinking about is something my Muslim partner-in-crime said. He said that the ONE question that a Muslim is not allowed to ask is "Who made God"? ...

God made a time travelling God making machine, but only if he did not find one already built?

[Magic Hans]

Well, I won't do that, but I would like to know how you arrived at this belief?

Fairly simple. I found it suggested ... on an audio book, I think. Considered the idea, and it checked out, broadly with how I am. As a bonus, it really does not contradict other religions at any fundamental level.

[Magic Hans]

... with all earlier religions ; monotheistic or otherwise

As far as I am aware (which isn't very!! ) None of the earlier religions (to Islam/Christianity/Judaism) were monotheistic!

[MartinHarper]

One thing I've been thinking about is something my Muslim partner-in-crime said. He said that the ONE question that a Muslim is not allowed to ask is "Who made God"? Its one question that I tend to shy away form because the ramifications are so big I don't think the human mind can cope without feeling a certain amount of fear/terror. I remember asking my Mum this question when I was about 6 .. still waiting for a good answer.

Just take all the different answers that scientists use to answer the question "who made the universe", and replace the word "universe" with "God". So, for example:

According to modern physics, the big bang represented the origin of space and time, as well as of matter and energy. This means that time itself came into existence with the big bang. Questions like: What happened before the big bang? or What caused the big bang? are therefore meaningless. There was no before.

Pass it through the science-to-Christianity filter, and behold:

According to Christianity, God represents the origin of space and time, as well as of matter and energy. This means that time itself came into existence with God. Questions like "What happened before God?" or "What created God?" are therefore meaningless. There was no before.