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Thread: What does it mean to be a Christian

  1. #101
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    I think that must be a very difficult way to live, constantly trying to live up to certain 'standards' but not having any faith or belief to back that up.
    For you, it would seem; and yet many people manage it. Perhaps they do not need bribes and threats to live a good life?

  2. #102
    Registered User Magic Hans's Avatar
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Yep, that's exactly my point. Some people define themselves as 'Christian' because of what they do, or how they behave and they don't really believe ...
    Yes, maybe, however, I would argue that they do believe in something. Behaviour comes from somewhere (call it a belief/value system), and is not, generally, totally and completely random.

    I would suspect that, these non-christian 'Christians' have a belief system that fairly resembles that of christian 'Christians'. Maybe they have modelled themselves on some other person who had 'christian' like values(?).

    I, for one, have a fairly unusual (I believe) belief that god is everything (including me, the tv and magazine rack), the karmic stuff, and that everything we do and think (in particular), has an effect on the world. ie, we are ultimately all interlinked.

    {NB Please feel free to debunk, question or rubbish this view point, I don't defend what I believe, I simply just believe it!!}

  3. #103
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Hans View Post
    {NB Please feel free to debunk, question or rubbish this view point, I don't defend what I believe, I simply just believe it!!}
    Well, I won't do that, but I would like to know how you arrived at this belief?

  4. #104
    Registered User andystyle's Avatar
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    I'm pretty hacked off with everyone on this forum who keeps asserting that they know my motivation better than me.

    If I write something and I make a mistake, I own up to it. Why not, for crying out loud? If I write something which is misunderstood or badly phrased, I correct it.
    That's a case of the pot calling the kettle black, especially coming from someone who has made sweeping statements about groups in the past!

    If it was a genuine mistake, fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    But I guess believers are trained to jump to conclusions without examining the evidence, so what should I expect?
    Another blanket assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Not having a dig, mind you.
    Touché.

  5. #105
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Plenty of people who do not believe in the divinity of Jesus also try to emulate him.
    Whether or not you believe he was divine, or actually existed in the first place, the character of Jesus is exemplary. I expect he appeals to many people who aren't Christians and yet admire Jesus' character.

  6. #106
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Hold on ... thats EXACTLY thats I was saying!
    You said true Christians would make a "positive impact" - I say the Amish don't, and you seemed to be changing the subject onto the "teachings of christ" so I re-iterated. Now I'm confused

    How can you say that 'true christians' don't make an impact??
    I didn't say that at all. I suggested they do not TRY TO anymore than any other group. Everyone can make an impact in the lives of others for the good and its a rare human then has NEVER done anything positive at all.

    Do you actually know any? How do you define 'true'??
    Exactly my point. "True Christian" is a ridiculous term, everyone who calls themselves a Christian will think they are a "True Christian". I don't know why you are asking me to define the label you made up, when I think it's daft.

    Sorry ... but don't follow your logic at all .... and considering the people I think of as 'true christians' I find some the statements rather offensive.
    As I'm only questioning your own statements - it can't be ME you find offensive

  7. #107
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    For you, it would seem; and yet many people manage it. Perhaps they do not need bribes and threats to live a good life?
    No, it's just that - for example, in the UK - our secular system provides bribes and threats a-plenty to try to make us lead "good" lives.

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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by andystyle View Post
    That's a case of the pot calling the kettle black, especially coming from someone who has made sweeping statements about groups in the past!

    If it was a genuine mistake, fair enough.
    I do make broad assertions, I confess.

    What I was whingeing about was the way - in the last few days - that I have posted 'No, I didn't mean THAT, I meant THIS', only to have people say 'No, you meant THAT all along, you're just trying to wriggle out of it by pretending you meant THIS.'

    The reason that rubs me up the wrong way is that if I did write THAT and I really meant THAT, but realised or was persuaded that THAT was wrong, I'd just say 'Oops. What I should have said was THIS'.

    I get a lot of enjoyment out of this forum and I would scorn to weasel out of the consequences of what I write, I would far rather simply fess up. I'm perfectly prepared to dish it out which means I must be perfectly prepared - when necessary! - to suck it up.

  9. #109
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    No, it's just that - for example, in the UK - our secular system provides bribes and threats a-plenty to try to make us lead "good" lives.
    I don't follow you.

  10. #110
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    You said true Christians would make a "positive impact" - I say the Amish don't
    Now it's you who must be joking.

    Have you not even seen Kingpin? If that's not a shining example of a positive impact on Western culture, I don't know what is.

  11. #111
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    I don't follow you.
    Bribes - money, opportunities, etc.
    Threats - legal action leading to imprisonment.

    Every social system has carrots and sticks, whether religion-based or not.

  12. #112
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Now it's you who must be joking.

    Have you not even seen Kingpin? If that's not a shining example of a positive impact on Western culture, I don't know what is.
    What DID you have in your coffee this morning ?

  13. #113
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    What DID you have in your coffee this morning ?
    Our coffee machine's broken, I've been caffeine-free for 3 hours now

  14. #114
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Yep, that's exactly my point. Some people define themselves as 'Christian' because of what they do, or how they behave and they don't really believe. I said something along those lines in my first post on this thread and I think that must be a very difficult way to live, constantly trying to live up to certain 'standards' but not having any faith or belief to back that up.
    I doubt thats true though. Anyone that tries to live their life by religious text, religious upbringing and the like must have faith that the rules they are applying are good ones. They may not have any faith in Gods, Scripture or anything else, but they still have faith that the moral choices they make and strive toward are good ones. I cant belief anyone makes decisions in life with no faith or belief that what they are doing is right (even if that is an entirely selfish "right for me"). Unless they are just going through the motions because they are severely autistic or something.

    Behaviour as a Christian isn't what makes someone a Christian, they are a Christian because of their status before God and relationship with God and then their relationship with others flows out of that.
    People are a Christian because they decide they are. It allows for a massive diversity, but ultimately i think you are right up to a point: Their relationship with others flows out of "how they see themselves" or a "perceived relationship with god" - I'm thinking Hitler, Ku Klux Klan members, "women must be seen but not heard" Southern Baptists and the like - all people with strong opinions but still with a "relationship" with god.

    But we can't see into another person's heart, so we have to make our judgements based on what we observe of their actions.
    The biggest problem a Christian can see is that other Christians sully the word with their actions and own unique take on the bible. Its understandable that its annoying when non-Christians do not see the distinctions and use the label "Christians" to apply to all who call themselves this. "But they are not Christians" is not supportable - because they are, if they say they are and believe it themselves!

  15. #115
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Our coffee machine's broken, I've been caffeine-free for 3 hours now
    I sympathise, I really do

  16. #116
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    So are you saying the Amish aren't true Christians?

    If so, I find that rather odd, to be honest.
    I don't know enough about them to make a call ... and probably not the best person to make a call as I'm struggling a bit with my faith. The point I was picking on was the 'perception' that they don't help their fellow man ... they just help their community. Personal view but I've always seen 'christians' as those who help others .... part of the 'love God and thy fellow man' bit.

    Re being a Christian I believe that one of the groups like Mormons or Latter day Saints aren't considered Christians as they don't believe in the Holy trinity ... or something like that ... gets a bit confusing for a simple soul like me

  17. #117
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Plenty of people who do not believe in the divinity of Jesus also try to emulate him.
    Hmmmmm ... and what a great thing it would be if more people did that esp on this Forum.....

  18. #118
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    I don't know enough about them to make a call ... and probably not the best person to make a call as I'm struggling a bit with my faith. The point I was picking on was the 'perception' that they don't help their fellow man ... they just help their community. Personal view but I've always seen 'christians' as those who help others .... part of the 'love God and thy fellow man' bit.
    Your definition seems to conflict with Lynn's:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    So being a Christian is about what we believe - we are made right with God through the actions of Christ, not our own actions. Therefore its not what we do or how we behave that makes someone a Christian - but being a Christian should make us seek to behave in a certain way and the Bible is full of examples of this.
    But even under your definition, I think you could argue that the Amish do help others, even if only by their example. I certainly don't think you have to go around actively proselytizing to be a Christian; the Christians who have most impressed me have generally been very laid back about their faith. Quiet strength, rather than strutting like a peacock.

    Re being a Christian I believe that one of the groups like Mormons or Latter day Saints aren't considered Christians as they don't believe in the Holy trinity ... or something like that ... gets a bit confusing for a simple soul like me
    You really can't lump the Amish in with the Mormons like that. The Amish most certainly do believe in the Trinity - it's one of the fundamentals of their faith. A bit of googling would not go amiss, I think.

  19. #119
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    You really can't lump the Amish in with the Mormons like that. The Amish most certainly do believe in the Trinity - it's one of the fundamentals of their faith. A bit of googling would not go amiss, I think.
    I didn't say they were I was just making the pint about what is deemed to be a 'Christian' outfit is sometimes a little confusing. I wonder if someone can be called a christian if they don't read the bible or go to Church? I don't know and don't profess to be in a position to make a call on that. I have my own views on what it means to be a christian, and am brutally aware that I fall well short of that benchmark. However, I have some good role models both within and without the dance world so I just keep plugging away.

    On a tangential point, I went to the first night of the local Alpha course ... 350+ people there of a fair number of races and creeds. My group should be fun, one very strong agnostic and a research scientist who is a Muslim. Some excellent pints made by both. Bit disappointing that the Christians got eaten alive (excuse the bad pun) in the on-table discussion .... but at least it means some really good challenges are being brought up. Interesting that the Christian reps kept going back to the 'faith' thing ... not a very convincing argument for a non-believer

  20. #120
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    Re: What does it mean to be a Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    I don't know enough about them to make a call ... and probably not the best person to make a call as I'm struggling a bit with my faith.
    Are you on facebook? A social network is a great place to meet the like minded - and if you want some new introductions i have some extremely religious friends

    Re being a Christian I believe that one of the groups like Mormons or Latter day Saints aren't considered Christians
    They are Christians as they think they are. They may not be considered Christians by every other group of Christians, but that doesnt mean they are not. Their beliefs stem from the same source, so what else would they be called ?

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