Do we need qualified instructors?

[Gus]

I’ve always been a proponent of ‘qualified’ instructors, the logic being that there is a huge difference between been able to dance and being able to teach dance. There is a range of quality between the teaching organization, Ceorc, Blitz, Mojive, LeRoc, but at least some training is better than none.

However, in the absence of qualified instructors, there seems to have been a major shift in the balance of teachers, especially in the North, with at least as many untrained instructors as qualified. Has the earth come to an end .. not so far. These unqualified teachers tend to be cheaper and are tending to teach all the fancy moves learnt from the Aussie and Weekender DVDs. So, is it really worth franchisees going through the pain and expanse of trying to find high quality candidates and training them up … so just get some enthusiastic/experienced dancers up on stage and see how it goes?

[Andy McGregor]

Anybody can share a few moves with other people who can already do modern jive. The real skill is teaching beginners. If all these "unqualified" teachers are doing is teaching experienced dancers I can see no harm in it. If, on the other hand, they are teaching complete novices I can see people learning a whole new dance loosely related to MJ.

[johnnyman]

I like sharing my knowledge with people if they want it. However, qualified instructors are required and important.

best
johnnyman

[straycat]

I don't care if they're qualified or not. Just so long as they're good.

[CentrAlex]

I like sharing my knowledge with people if they want it. However, qualified instructors are required and important.

I don't care if they're qualified or not. Just so long as they're good.

Anybody can share a few moves with other people who can already do modern jive. The real skill is teaching beginners. If all these "unqualified" teachers are doing is teaching experienced dancers I can see no harm in it. If, on the other hand, they are teaching complete novices I can see people learning a whole new dance loosely related to MJ.

All valid points but as a Teacher Trainer for Ceroc I believe that it is essential for teachers to be trained. Yes, the 'unqualified' teachers may be teaching more 'flashy' moves in their classes but is this really beneficial to the dancers at the venue. As Andy said, it is really important to have sufficient training to be able to teach the beginners competently because if they don't get it then they won't come back and they won't have the basics to learn the more advanced moves.

Also from my understanding, it is a requirement by law to be trained!

[David Bailey]

Also from my understanding, it is a requirement by law to be trained!

Sorry, but that's clearly wrong - any fool can call himself / herself a dance teacher, and many do. Look at the salsa scene for hundreds of examples of this.

And if there were a legal requirement, then CTA training wouldn't count, it'd have to be training by recognised professional body, like the IDTA / ISTD etc.

And as far as I know, amongst MJ organisations, only Le Roc is even close to that, by virtue of being associated with the UKA.

[Gus]

were [/I]a legal requirement, then CTA training wouldn't count, it'd have to be training by recognised professional body, like the IDTA / ISTD etc.

Absolutely true ... LeRoc is the only accredited course ... which worries the heck out of me as I'm really not sure that it either pre-vets or gives sufficient technique training.

Re Alex's comment re 'flash moves' ... deffo ... how many times have I seen people trying to teach major aerials without any real concept of how the move works rather than what it looks like. Fancy learning the Swan Lift (as in Dirty Dancing) in 5 minutes by some bloke at your local club with no spotters, warm up etc etc

[Twirlie Bird]

Fancy learning the Swan Lift (as in Dirty Dancing) in 5 minutes by some bloke at your local club with no spotters, warm up etc etc

You were there hiding in the shadows!

Seriously it's difficult for dancers and especially newbies to know who are the trained and qualified teachers. Like it's already been said many people call themselves teachers. Also if a guy is on the stage with a mic and is showing you the moves you do assume (wrongly in my case) that he is a teacher.

[Raul]

if a guy is on the stage with a mic and is showing you the moves you do assume (wrongly in my case) that he is a teacher.

And this is why I believe that Ceroc has the success that it deserves.

Many including myself comment that the teaching in Ceroc classes is regimented and you can say the mantra before the teacher utters them. All teachers go through a selection process and all are trained to whatever criteria they have. It works. It may not be the best teaching you can get but it is probably one of the best systems you can have on a large scale. IMO the classes rank between ok and quite good. The training ensures that none of the teaching is mediocre. One or two teachers rise above that to be excellent.

[Twirlie Bird]

And this is why I believe that Ceroc has the success that it deserves.

Many including myself comment that the teaching in Ceroc classes is regimented and you can say the mantra before the teacher utters them. All teachers go through a selection process and all are trained to whatever criteria they have. It works. It may not be the best teaching you can get but it is probably one of the best systems you can have on a large scale. IMO the classes rank between ok and quite good. The training ensures that none of the teaching is mediocre. One or two teachers rise above that to be excellent.

Would agree with you here except this was a Ceroc class and a Ceroc 'teacher'.

[Raul]

Would agree with you here except this was a Ceroc class and a Ceroc 'teacher'.

I would suggest you PM CentrAlex and discuss the specifics with him.

[Gus]

Would agree with you here except this was a Ceroc class and a Ceroc 'teacher'.

Ahhhhh ... would you be referring to a certain chap who has been 'allowed' to teach classes despite the fact that he hasn't in fact been CTA trained and is (allegedly) driven more my ego than technique?

[Twirlie Bird]

I would suggest you PM CentrAlex and discuss the specifics with him.

As Gus has noted below this guy is well known for this. He does it every single week and has done since I started dancing 11 months ago. Obviously don't know how long before that he was doing it. Apparently he's allowed to do it. Maybe it's a different rule for him as he's on the Ceroc committee or something like that. I dunno. As for PM'ing Alex I feel pretty certain that Alex would know all about this anyway. It's hardly a secret.

Ahhhhh ... would you be referring to a certain chap who has been 'allowed' to teach classes despite the fact that he hasn't in fact been CTA trained and is (allegedly) driven more my ego than technique?

The very one.

[NZ Monkey]

I don't care if they're qualified or not. Just so long as they're good.

We don't have any recognised training courses for teachers here in New Zealand, yet the HQ venue has a number of teachers, all of whom are of at least the same quality as the CTA produces.

In fact in several cases I feel they would be worse teachers if they they had to abide by a certain script or method. Sometimes individual inspiration is much more effective than measured routine, and I find that it helps enourmously if a teacher has had to analyse a subject themselves rather than just "quoting the company line".

The real catch is that although you want natural teachers to be the ones teaching your classes, but there are not that many of these people floating around. Training is always beneficial if the training is up to standard, but I suspect many of the talented teachers only jump through the required hoops to get the paperwork at the end and then do things their own way (which works better for them).

For the "less naturally able" teacher, training is vital to produce a standard level of quality.

[David Bailey]

Seriously it's difficult for dancers and especially newbies to know who are the trained and qualified teachers.

One of the many good things about the CTA is that it guarantees (well, probably) a minimum level of teaching competence.

And if a Ceroc teacher is genuinely incompetent, they should be reported (as suggested), rather than "discussed" here - this is getting perilously close to the dreaded naming-and-shaming...

But this made me laugh:

driven more my ego

[Dan Hudson]

(allegedly) driven more my ego than technique?

there is a lot of them to choose from

[Gus]

But this made me laugh:

If all it takes is my natural incompatibility with a keyboard to make you laugh the night time hours must simply fly by.

There will always be the debate of standardisation v individual flair. The problem I've seen with untrained teachers is that they tend to teach wrong! They change the beat count, tell people to step back on the left when stepping back on the right is more natural, they ignore safety points, they don't illustrate the key points etc. A few months ago I watched an instructor, really to get some learning pints for myself. I noted 3 good things he did that I thought I should think about ... but covered a whole page with things that were wrong (per the CTA view)