i think in DJs definition here, Advanced means "at the level where it would not be humanly possible to take the dance style any further" or "continually innovative" or "Gods amongst men" etc...and he's probably right then
i think in DJs definition here, Advanced means "at the level where it would not be humanly possible to take the dance style any further" or "continually innovative" or "Gods amongst men" etc...and he's probably right then
We've had that thread already
Ah, but I don't think it is relative.
- If it's relative, then it's an easy definition - an advanced dancer is "someone in the top X%", and all we need to discuss is the value of X.
- If it's non-relative, which is my position, then it's based on a set of relatively-objective criteria. Unfortunately, those criteria are non-trivial to define.
Hey, I like the number, so sue me
It all depends where you sit and also what pond you swim in.
My good friend who was training for a champs had been dancing 11 years, first in NZ then in Aussie... He asked me where I saw him.... I did ask him, are you sure you want me to answer...
I said, I saw him as upper intermediate, you do the moves well, you are technically correct and look hot.... now the challenge is to "dance" the moves.
Maybe I have a harsh scale...
When teaching advanced classes, you are looking to up the standard from intermediate, for some people they think this means more moves taught quicker with complex bits, for others, they see it as more complex moves, that are totally new to people. I like to go for the totally new approach, but then I sometimes aim too high, as many people in an advanced class, do not pick it up as quickly as I would expect those who I train with regularly to do so.
Having danced regularly in UK, Aussie and also spent some time in NZ, Aussie intermediate classes IMHO are on par to a Advanced class in the UK, Beginner in Aussie is on par to intermediate in uk... not saying this is right or best policy... I just have to adjust to where I teach
Funny thing is, I no longer compete at champs and I mainly do beginner moves in freestyle, with variations and timing changes to the music, one person recently commented that I used to be advanced but now dance like a beginner...
Oh well, I am now a beginner, happy to dance with other beginners and just try to make sure the girl enjoys the dance... feels the music and the flow.
Yeah that... me too....
was just talking as to what some expect.
Try doing a body movement and musicallity class to 1000 dancers, who think they are advanced,,,, and see how many get it.....
A few will get it and love it, others, will be bemused.. fortunately this is starting to change....
There are a lot of things that are needed to be an advanced social dancer.
Connection
Lead & Follow
Musicality
Individual technique
Partnering technique
Balance
Quality of movement
Variety
Natural ability
Floorcraft
(And no doubt there are plenty more...)
Most good dancers would have strengths & weaknesses in this list. They would also have their priorities as to what they consider important. But to be advanced you can't really have any weaknesses.
By this definition I'd only rate 2 men I've seen as being truly advanced, but at least 10 ladies.
Last edited by DavidB; 25th-September-2007 at 01:56 PM.
A beginner is by definition "someone just starting out" – someone who is "not very good" but has been dancing more than even a year is not a beginner. They might not be of "intermediate" standard, but they are no longer beginning.
Intermediate and advanced are relative descriptions of standard. "Beginner" is not. Unfortunately there's no nice word to describe someone who is not of a very good standard despite their experience.
In the MJ world, advanced must mean "better than most", which if we could rate everyone, it'd be an arbitrary percentage that sits at the top of these ratings – maybe the top 20% (using Martin's number of 200 advanced dancers out of 1000 at a weekender workshop.)
It's also very clear that the vast majority of these advanced MJ dancers are not advanced in professional terms, but that's no surprise.
Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story
Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story
David
Do you think this may be balanced this way because you dance as a lead? I know you have judged an awful lot of competitions which may also include DWAS which could be classed as social dancing I guess but you did say that you were talking about social dancing. I know I have little first-hand awareness of many other leader's abilities as I do not dance with them nor often sit and watch.
Robert
Depends where. I've been to some-event-abroad-or-other-whose-name-I-temporarily-forget-honest where if you're not an advanced dancer, you shouldn't even think about doing the advanced classes. Needless to say, these classes are taught by god-like teachers.
Closer to home though, it seems to be the case that Advanced classes are attended by people who think they're advanced...
Thats a matter of opinion - if we say they are "starting out" on a journey to be a pro dancer and they are 20 years away from that, then, relatively, they are still beginners So you still have the issue of what they are "beginning"
oh yes it is.Intermediate and advanced are relative descriptions of standard. "Beginner" is not.
I'd rather use it to mean "capable of ADDING to MJ" if they are not creating anything original themselves are they really advanced ? Are you an advanced driver if you are better than most other drivers ? Is that not aiming a bit too low ?In the MJ world, advanced must mean "better than most",
But if you're not using "professional terms" what are you using? A comparison to the rest of the mediocre dancing population ? you may as well not bother...It's also very clear that the vast majority of these advanced MJ dancers are not advanced in professional terms, but that's no surprise.
Compared to my 2 year old daughter I'm super-duper advanced. Although actually she's not a bad dancer for her age
Someone who hasn’t learn fundamental moves who 'struggles' in all aspects is still a beginner in my book or do we call them poor intermediates after 6 months regardless of ability. ?? Interesting point
If you suggest its just time that puts you from beginner to intermediate then more time will put you on a advanced footing. ??
Maybe poor ,good excellent are better and beginner,intermediate advance always have to be put in some context so has limited use
Depends how long the journey is... I'm still definitely a beginner at Tango, and that's 2 years in.
I disagree - I believe they all describe a level - but admittedly the term "beginner" is ambiguous.
Cerocer?
Nope - it can be either a relative or an absolute term. Personally I think it's absolute(-ish), but I'll allow for the possibility that is could be relative, if that's the way most other people see it.
It might be. To some extent it is natural to rate leaders after watching them, and followers after dancing with them. I'm well aware that some people feel completely different to dance with compared to how they look, so it is easy to be wrong about someone.
However most good dancers are pretty good at leading/following. I think the main factor separating men and ladies would be 'quality of movement'.
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