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Thread: About time - Ceroc and the city

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    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    About time - Ceroc and the city

    Well, I say its about time they deviated from the "Big wooden room with a sound system" idea.

    City

    Looks like a really cool place to go dance. I think I would like that.

    Is this going to attract a different type of dancer? Is there a particular reason for this foray into the 'bar' scene?

    Cool idea though.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: About time - Ceroc and the city

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    Well, I say its about time they deviated from the "Big wooden room with a sound system" idea.

    City

    Looks like a really cool place to go dance. I think I would like that.
    Dancing in a place like that can be fun if there are very few couples doing it, but that venue looks like it would be horrendously overcrowded with more than about 10 couples, at least if they're dancing Ceroc. (Other more compact styles might do better, but your average Ceroc dancer isn't noted for dancing in a small space).

    Is this going to attract a different type of dancer?
    Possibly agoraphobics...
    Last edited by David Franklin; 17th-September-2007 at 06:08 PM.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: About time - Ceroc and the city

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    Well, I say its about time they deviated from the "Big wooden room with a sound system" idea.
    I'm not sure... I'm not one of those who auto-denigrates all new ideas, but I just can't see it working - for pretty much the same reasons as DavidF.

    Jive Nation tried it with the Hippodrome, and it ran into the same problems - you need space to dance MJ in, it's not designed for intimate venues, and you have a real problem with your average club venue. Even salsa venues have this problem, and salsa dancing can be much more squashed and intimate than MJ.

    Club venues are designed primarily for people to stand and drink, with a small minority dancing. In Ceroc venues, there's usually a majority dancing, so either you have to accept small numbers (who spend less time and money dancing) or you have large numbers of people who don't enjoy the experience of being squashed - which naturally leads to small numbers of course

    Unless you charged significantly more (say £10-£12 entry), I can't see how this model would work.

    I vaguely recall Ceroc London doing a "City" thing a few years back - actually, quite a few years back - that was also an earlier start, and that also folded I believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    Is this going to attract a different type of dancer? Is there a particular reason for this foray into the 'bar' scene?
    Well, possibly it's to compete with JN - or, possibly it's just trying something new. Either way, good for them for keeping up trying new stuff - I just don't believe it's viable

    Looking at the images, the only way I can see a class working is by moving the furniture - in which case, you're back to a rectangular hall...

    Hmmm, I wonder if the classes will be taught in the round?

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    Re: About time - Ceroc and the city

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    Well, I say its about time they deviated from the "Big wooden room with a sound system" idea.
    This is hardly the first time they've used a bar for a dance venue. The big challenge is getting dancers to spend enough money on alcohol.

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    Re: About time - Ceroc and the city

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post


    Hmmm, I wonder if the classes will be taught in the round?
    Do any current venues do this? Sounds like that could work great. Would be nice to be able to see the teacher doing the routines from all angles.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: About time - Ceroc and the city

    Quote Originally Posted by Connie View Post
    Do any current venues do this?
    I've never been to a Ceroc class (or an MJ class, for that matter) that taught in the round. I've taught salsa / AT classes and workshops for Ceroc which were in the round - that's the way most salsa / AT classes are taught normally - but I don't know if normal MJ workshops are in the round?

    Quote Originally Posted by Connie View Post
    Sounds like that could work great. Would be nice to be able to see the teacher doing the routines from all angles.
    It is good, but it only works for small numbers - less than 30, generally.

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    Re: About time - Ceroc and the city

    Quote Originally Posted by Connie View Post
    Do any current venues do this? Sounds like that could work great. Would be nice to be able to see the teacher doing the routines from all angles.
    It happens at Ceroc Bossa Nova, out of necessity (no stage). It works fine. We have about 30-50 people in the lesson. The more experienced dancers try to arrange things so that the newcomers have a good view of the teacher.

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    Registered User Almost an Angel's Avatar
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    Re: About time - Ceroc and the city

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    I've never been to a Ceroc class (or an MJ class, for that matter) that taught in the round. I've taught salsa / AT classes and workshops for Ceroc which were in the round - that's the way most salsa / AT classes are taught normally - but I don't know if normal MJ workshops are in the round?
    Quote Originally Posted by Connie
    Sounds like that could work great. Would be nice to be able to see the teacher doing the routines from all angles.
    It is good, but it only works for small numbers - less than 30, generally.
    I'e taught in a round before it works just fine. Everyone gets to see you and you're on the same level as them. Only problem comes with moves that travel when you have to have all the leads facing the same direction around the circle (either clockwise or anti) otherwise it can cause chaos.

    And as for how many people you have in the class it depends entirely on the size of the room! I've seen larger classes and smaller taught in the round - I actually quite enjoy it - rather more a group feeling that a teacher on stage.

    Angel xx

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: About time - Ceroc and the city

    Quote Originally Posted by Almost an Angel View Post
    And as for how many people you have in the class it depends entirely on the size of the room!
    Well, yes - but you obviously can't fit as many people in a "round" class as you can in a "rows" class, because there's so much wasted space with a round. So you either have to charge more, or accept less revenue...

    Quote Originally Posted by Almost an Angel View Post
    I've seen larger classes and smaller taught in the round - I actually quite enjoy it - rather more a group feeling that a teacher on stage.
    Absolutely

    Round classes are far better to teach and to learn in, in my view - you're closer to the teacher, and you can see more of what they're doing. But they don't really match the "pack 'em in" MJ business model.

    Which is why I'm not sure if this new venue would work - I can't see where it differs from the standard model. If, for example, they charged a per-class fee, as other forms do, then that might well be a viable model for that venue - but with the standard "all-inclusive cheapo model" class, I have my doubts.

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: About time - Ceroc and the city

    I know this bar - the pictures actually make it look far smaller than it actually is. It's around the corner from where I work, and have been there several times both for lunch and for "do's", though not for a while.

    There are several rooms, some are carpeted though. Yes, they'd move the furniture - I've seen it done before.

    I might go and check this out on Monday night - it's the place where I first danced Ceroc at a dating night (I didn't know any MJ at all, but the guy still managed to talk me into dancing and quite amazingly lead me). There is a room at the back where they were teaching Ceroc at the dating evening (hence presumably Ceroc being aware of the venue) though I missed the class. The floor is dreadful though, concrete I think - hope to goodness they're not using that room...

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: About time - Ceroc and the city

    So, did anyone on here go to this?

    Looking here, it appears that it is indeed taught in traditional style - not in the round, in other words.

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    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: About time - Ceroc and the city

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    So, did anyone on here go to this?

    Looking here, it appears that it is indeed taught in traditional style - not in the round, in other words.
    I see they're using a temporary floor... That must be a bit of a hassle to set up and clear every week.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: About time - Ceroc and the city

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I see they're using a temporary floor...
    Oh yes, so it is - well-spotted.

    Funny, the floor underneath looked OK - I guess you can only tell when you use it.

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    Registered User strobie's Avatar
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    Re: About time - Ceroc and the city

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    So, did anyone on here go to this?
    Yes, we went last week. I didn't enjoy it much to be honest - it was very cramped for the classes (three rows on the small temporary floor and the guy behind me was often on the wrong side so we kept reversing into each other), the temporary floor was strangely spongy, the pieces of the temporary stage kept moving so Dale was in danger of falling through the gaps, the DJ wasn't in sight of the stage and didn't appear to be able to hear "and now to music" so Dale had to keep waving around the back for music to start, and there was an awkward mix of people some who seemingly had come more for speed dating than dancing and some others who seemed to consider themselves hotshots (when I got "why don't you dance more to the music" I just managed to bite back "I'm f***ing trying to!"). I was also quite worried about my stuff (e.g. work laptop, as people are going to be coming from work) just lying in a pile of bags by a table as there didn't seem to be any cloakroom.

    On the upside, after the classes there was a nice open and largely empty area behind the stage (where the DJ booth is, so I presume this is the usual area for dancing) where one could freestyle in comfort. If it survives its teething troubles I think it could improve, so I may well give it another go in future.

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