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Thread: Dancing out of beat

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Itis possible to dance without any music - I have done it, and it felt wonderful. If it possible to dance to a tune in the leaders head, then it is possible to dance to a different beat, even to a different song.

    one or two of the frequently played tracks are just pants.

    btw Beethoven was deaf when he wrote some of his best works.
    Last edited by Raul; 24th-September-2007 at 03:55 PM.

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul View Post
    It is said by a couple of my Tango teachers. .


    Best. Response. Ever.

    Whyever didn't you just say you were talking about Tango? Of course it doesn't matter if you Tango off the beat. Isn't it just like walking, anyway?

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post


    Best. Response. Ever.

    Whyever didn't you just say you were talking about Tango? Of course it doesn't matter if you Tango off the beat. Isn't it just like walking, anyway?
    I am glad I made you laugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post


    Best. Response. Ever.
    No. I take my hat to

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    It is possible to dance without any music - I have done it, and it felt wonderful. If it possible to dance to a tune in the leaders head, then it is possible to dance to a different beat, even to a different song. There are some tracks that just do not command my respect, and I am not knowingly listening to the music.
    Last edited by Raul; 24th-September-2007 at 04:23 PM.

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Itis possible to dance without any music - I have done it, and it felt wonderful.
    One of my favoruite dances was to 15 mins silence while the DJ tried to figure out why the music wasn't playing

    (Oh and if we're straying into Tango, the DJ at one club has taking to putting significant pauses between tracks so I've taken to dancing in the silence )

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    If it possible to dance to a tune in the leaders head, then it is possible to dance to a different beat, even to a different song.
    Yup - I've had women at Ceroc complain they don't like the song that's being played so I've asked them what they'd like to dance to instead

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul View Post
    I am glad I made you laugh.
    S'alright! Don't mention it

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    There is this guy at the venue i dance at on a wednesday that sounds pretty much like you have experienced. I dance with him atleast once every week, but he totaly dances off beat! The majority of the dance i feel like i'm being ragged around the dance floor . I would say no to dancing with him again, but i feel really really rude for saying no to a dance haha. It was extreamly off putting at first, especialy when i first joined. I used to try to resist eg... hold my spins out, take a little while longer doing what he wanted me to do, just anything to try and get the dance back on beat, but now i just let him lead me how he wants , Always off beat, but when i dance with him, i have learnt to just block out the music, and as others have said, just concentrate on the beat "he's hearing". After all, the song isn't that long, and before you know it, the song has finished =].

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Maybe I am being rude/conceited/whatever, but once I have danced with a yanker guy so totally off beat, I simply will avoid him - why subject yourself to unpleasant experience?
    As so many people said before - life's too short. If you started dancing and realised he was off-beat, fine, let him lead. But if you KNOW that he is dancing to whatever music he is hearing, not paying the slightest attention to his partner's moves, style or timing, then find somebody else to dance with!
    I have danced with a guy, who was also off-beat, but very considerate of my timing, and it was, actually, quite a pleasant dance. He wasn't trying to yank me to his own beat, let me finish my spins, let me do my styling - totally different attitude and, consequently, experience.
    I think I might be contradicting my own earlier post , but it now occurs to me that off-beat on its own isn't the biggest of evils - couple it with a yanker and you've got a lethal combination!

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Just go with what he leads. He's driving. How would you feel if your car started slowing down because it thought you were going to fast - or, even worse, sped up because it thought you were a slowcoach.

    There's loads of guys out there who have a problem with the beat. But at least they're dancing. Go with the beat they can hear and ignore the music - and ask the guys who can hear the beat so you don't have to dance off the beat too often.

    At least those guys who can't hear the beat at all aren't as bad as the guys who think beat 2 is beat 1


    Such great advice

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Follow the lead. Learn to dance out of beat if that is what is led.

    Otherwise, you will probably learn to dance on the beat despite what is being led.
    Or worse, you may learn to force the leader to dance on the beat.

    One day you will dance with someone who has a more sophisticated understanding of musicality. You might ignore his lead and dance only on the beat, but you will miss most of the joy of dancing with him.

    Everyone, leader and follower, has to learn to dance on time; playing with the timing is not possible until you understand the timing. But followers must follow. No matter how well a leader understands the music, if the follower dances to her own interpretation rather than following the lead, the dance cannot be as good.

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    There's loads of guys out there who have a problem with the beat. But at least they're dancing.
    Why do female leads rarely have a problem with it then?

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by timbp View Post
    Follow the lead. Learn to dance out of beat if that is what is led.
    Why?

    Oh... because....
    Otherwise, you will probably learn to dance on the beat despite what is being led.
    Or worse, you may learn to force the leader to dance on the beat.
    Why is that bad? You'll be dancing to the music. Isn't that A Good Thing?

    One day you will dance with someone who has a more sophisticated understanding of musicality.
    I doubt it, if he has no sense of rhythm.

    Seriously, unless you've experienced dancing with someone with no rhythm, you have no idea how awful it is. As Followers, we already cope with the frustration of Leads who don't have musicality (whether through inexperience, ignorance or through being a move monster). Don't lecture us to always suffer a complete lack of rhythm with good grace.

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    Why?

    Oh... because....

    Why is that bad? You'll be dancing to the music. Isn't that A Good Thing?


    I doubt it, if he has no sense of rhythm.

    Seriously, unless you've experienced dancing with someone with no rhythm, you have no idea how awful it is. As Followers, we already cope with the frustration of Leads who don't have musicality (whether through inexperience, ignorance or through being a move monster). Don't lecture us to always suffer a complete lack of rhythm with good grace.
    If you a move monster who always dances on the beat, do you still lack musicallity?

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    If you a move monster who always dances on the beat, do you still lack musicallity?
    Depends on what you're dancing to, I suspect. If the moves fit the music, even by chance, then, yes, that's musicality in my book. However, it's unlikely the moves will match the phrasing of the music.

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by timbp View Post
    Everyone, leader and follower, has to learn to dance on time; playing with the timing is not possible until you understand the timing. But followers must follow. No matter how well a leader understands the music, if the follower dances to her own interpretation rather than following the lead, the dance cannot be as good.
    That is so true, if like some people your timing is &a1 &a2 &a3 &a4 etc the dance will appear smoother less blocky plus the ease of adding of light & shade (fast/slow) that gives dance its mystery, musicality needs to be like the music its self multi layered.

    Its shouldnt about the beat but gaps in between!!

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
    That is so true, if like some people your timing is &a1 &a2 &a3 &a4 etc the dance will appear smoother less blocky plus the ease of adding of light & shade (fast/slow) that gives dance its mystery, musicality needs to be like the music its self multi layered.

    Its shouldnt about the beat but gaps in between!!
    I would love to follow your beat of &a1, &a2, &a3, &a4 but I seem to be on different dance floors to you these days

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Why do female leads rarely have a problem with it then?
    How many women who have never tried partner dancing come to a partner dance class and choose to lead?

    Every woman I know who leads in ceroc/MJ has previously learned to follow in ceroc/MJ.

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    Why?

    Oh... because....

    Why is that bad? You'll be dancing to the music. Isn't that A Good Thing?
    No. Following your advice, you will be dancing on the beat. There is more to music than beat.

    I doubt it, if he has no sense of rhythm.
    But if he has no sense of rhythm, then he's hardly a candidate for my statement of "more sophisticated understanding of musicality".

    Seriously, unless you've experienced dancing with someone with no rhythm, you have no idea how awful it is.
    When I started dancing, I could not find the beat. Many patient followers helped me. Now, I do know how awful it is to dance with someone with no rhythm. Even if it is true that men have less sense of rhythm than women, that does not mean all women have rhythm.

    ----

    Your earlier comment suggested you see dancing on beat as more important than anything else. Certainly you rejected my comment about "more sophisticated understanding of musicality".
    Have you ever thought that if you were a leader, you would be a "move monster"? You certainly display many of the characteristics, especially your refusal to acknowledge there is more to musicality than just dancing on the beat.

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by timbp View Post
    How many women who have never tried partner dancing come to a partner dance class and choose to lead?

    Every woman I know who leads in ceroc/MJ has previously learned to follow in ceroc/MJ.
    Quite a few to be honest.

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by timbp View Post
    No. Following your advice, you will be dancing on the beat. There is more to music than beat.
    I hope he doesn't mind - but I'm going to use a dance I had with Tsh on Staurday as an example, as it perfectly fits what I'm saying.

    This was a dance where he extended moves, paused & stopped moving, and fitted the phrasing of the music perfectly - however, within that phrasing and playing, the FRAMEWORK of the music, as marked out by the BEAT was still there.

    You can't ignore the beat. If you do, the whole dance falls apart.

    If it helps you to understand what I'm saying, think about the dancers being additional instruments within the music. They don't have to play the exact same thing that someone else is playing. But, in order to fit, they have to play in the same key, and to the same beat. If they don't - it sounds loose and disjointed.

    This is why I find it hard to dance with someone without rhythm, who cannot hear the beats.

    Your earlier comment suggested you see dancing on beat as more important than anything else. Certainly you rejected my comment about "more sophisticated understanding of musicality".
    No. As I've said above, you cannot have a "more sophisticated understanding of musicality" without having that basis to work from.

    Have you ever thought that if you were a leader, you would be a "move monster"?
    If I were a Move Monster, I'd quite fancy being a Move Vampire.

    I do lead, but because I can't remember too many moves, I tend to play with the music more, just to get away with it. People I dance lead with tend to indicate that I dance to the music. I always say it's because I know what I like (as a follower), that I try to do it when I lead.

    You certainly display many of the characteristics, especially your refusal to acknowledge there is more to musicality than just dancing on the beat.
    Ooooh! Handbag! That's a bit of a snotty comment. But I'll rise above it.

    All I was saying, is that to me, dancing to the beat is far more important, because the beat is what gives the dance the framwork. Perhaps it's because I'm a musician.

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    Re: Dancing out of beat

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    I hope he doesn't mind - but I'm going to use a dance I had with Tsh on Staurday as an example, as it perfectly fits what I'm saying.

    This was a dance where he extended moves, paused & stopped moving, and fitted the phrasing of the music perfectly - however, within that phrasing and playing, the FRAMEWORK of the music, as marked out by the BEAT was still there.

    You can't ignore the beat. If you do, the whole dance falls apart.
    I'd put it slightly differently... You should be aware of the beat, but you can choose to deliberately ignore it for some parts of the dance, as long as you, umm, "acknowledge" the beat. You don't have to - for example - step on every beat / every other beat, just to acknowledge the beat. I can't put it better than that, I'm afraid.

    But like all this stuff, you need to know the rules before you can bend them.

    I wouldn't use "ignore", as that implies the person is aware of the beat in the first place - lots of people simply don't hear it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    No. As I've said above, you cannot have a "more sophisticated understanding of musicality" without having that basis to work from.

    You need to be able to dance to the beat before you can dance not to the beat

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    I do lead, but because I can't remember too many moves, I tend to play with the music more, just to get away with it.
    Well, duh. I mean, that's what the rest of us do.

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