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Thread: On the subject of taxes

  1. #21
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: On the subject of taxes

    Re: jobs moving to where labour is cheaper...
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepman View Post
    So would you debate that manufacturing in this country is a fraction of what it used to be?
    Nope, but that's a Good Thing. We're too attached to this romantic idea of "manufacturing" or farming as being "proper industries" - compared to much larger industries like tourism or the service sector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepman View Post
    Or that call centres have flocked to India, where an educated workforce is available at a much lower cost than in the UK?
    Mmm... I think that's a temporary phenomenon. Lots of companies are bringing their call centres back, simply because the service isn't very good from Indian call centres - and, of course, because Indian salaries are skyrocketing. At this rate, in ten years' time, we'll be selling call centre services to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepman View Post
    Going back to the corporation tax, there may be years where a company avoids paying it, but I very much doubt that there are perennially profitable companies that avoid paying it year after year.
    Well, yeah - obviously, if you're "profitable", you pay tax. But there's a difference between being profitable and being successful, as Icey's example above shows. Effectively, private equity is being used as a nifty way of avoiding tax.

    And I just loved this justification:
    However, in a statement to the BBC, Saga said that it was treated the same as any other UK company. "All companies that borrow money can deduct interest from their taxable profits.

    "The economy benefits because banks which receive that interest are subject to corporation tax.
    Not to mention:
    The AA's accounts show that it ended both 2005 and 2006 with the taxman actually owing it money - £67.9m and £11.9m.

    However in 2006, the AA made an operating profit of £252m, which was 29% higher than in the previous year.
    And people wonder why accountants sometimes have a bad name...

    Yes, I know, they're just using the loopholes the government has provided. But even so, one wonders how they can justify themselves morally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepman View Post
    I wonder how much the lack of corporation tax is down to companies making huge provisions for pensions deficits? After Gordon Brown's raid on pension schemes (I think it's around £50billion now) it's hardly surprising if the pinch is felt somewhere else.
    I agree with this - in fact, I think this government's been notorious for making the tax system more complex and more stealthy, which of course results in exactly the type of loopholes that are being exploited.

  2. #22
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    Re: On the subject of taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    I think that the public welfare system was a great thing when it was first introduced, and then it was the envy of the world. Unfortunately, the welfare system now bears little resemblance to what it was then, and is so badly abused that it is becoming a Joke. It caters very well for the people that never contribute to it's upkeep, but not so well for the people who have paid into it for many years. The whole system needs looking at to bring it back to nearer what it used be.
    I'm sorry to sound confrontational, but that's Daily Heil type knee-jerk rubbish.

    Sit and think for a moment what our society would be like if we didn't have a welfare system - no benefits, no tax credits.

    Have a search around the internet (~~~.gov.uk) and see how much is actually spent on welfare every year, and then add up each and every tale of abuse (but do not extrapolate, since you have no idea what the correct factors ought to be) and see what a small percentage of the total they add up to. Remember that not one single instance of someone who desperately needs welfare, is entitled to it, obtains it, and manages to exist with its help or to get back onto a self-reliant path, is going to appear in a newspaper. Not one.

    All human systems are inherently inefficient - wasteful. I see no reason why the health, education and welfare systems should be the exception. We just have to accept that it won't work perfectly.

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    Re: On the subject of taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    I'm sorry to sound confrontational, but that's Daily Heil type knee-jerk rubbish.

    Sit and think for a moment what our society would be like if we didn't have a welfare system - no benefits, no tax credits.
    It's not Knee jerk rubbish at all. The whole welfare system needs to be looked at in depth to sort out all the loopholes that allow unscrupulous people to work the system. I'm all for the welfare system. I'm all for people who come on hard times being given a helping hand to see them through hard times until they can cope again. I'm dead against the mollycoddling of self abusing junkies receiving free methadone, and lots of other freebies and benefits, when some pensioner who has worked all their days and contributed to the system, can't get their hip replacement done because there is too long a waiting list, or insufficient funds. I'm tired of seeing queues outside post offices on giro day, full of people who will head straight to the pub or the bookies once they get their cash, and have no intention of finding gainful employment. There are too many in this country that see it as their right to receive assistance forever without ever having contributed into the system. They are the people that are preventing the really needy from getting what they need.

  4. #24
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: On the subject of taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    The whole welfare system needs to be looked at in depth to sort out all the loopholes that allow unscrupulous people to work the system.
    Any welfare system will have "extreme cases" - the "12 kids..." thread discusses one such.

    That's one of the prices we pay to have a welfare system - some people will take advantage of it. And the Daily Mail probably has a stock of exactly these stories, to use on a slow news day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    I'm all for the welfare system. I'm all for people who come on hard times being given a helping hand to see them through hard times until they can cope again.
    That's not a welfare system, that's a safety net - there's a difference.

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    Re: On the subject of taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    Righto, here we go...{rant mode on}....I think that all the migrant workers from outside the UK should be subject to Immigration Tax, which they should pay for at least the first five years of being in this country. That would mean that they are contributing and helping to relieve the burden on a system that at present gives them free medical treatment and numerous benefits.
    Personally, I think non-immigrants should be subject to a Freeloader Tax. These so-called "citizens" spend the first 16+ years of their time in the United Kingdom contributing next to no taxes, and burdening a system that at present gives them free education, medical treatment, and numerous benefits. Then many of them spend years, sometimes decades, of their lives wasting money luxuriating in taxpayer-funded care homes and hospitals, and the government actually gives them money just for still being alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    I can't see the fairness in a system that pays out Jobseekers allowance, and other benefits to school leavers who have no real intention of finding gainful employment.
    The one time I tried claiming jobseeker's allowance, the folks at the job center found me a job interview within an hour, got me a job offer the next day, and I started employment the following Monday. This surprised the heck out of me, given what I had read in the tabloids. I'm sure folks do abuse the system, but it's not exactly free cash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    Where is the incentive for school kids to further their education and become the Lawyers, doctors, etc etc, that we need?
    I think the main incentive is that lawyers and doctors get fabulously wealthy and save lives, whereas people who try to live off jobseeker's allowance die in the gutter.

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    Re: On the subject of taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    I'm dead against the mollycoddling of self abusing junkies receiving free methadone...
    How about self-abusing smokers receiving free nicotine patches?
    BBC NEWS | Health | Nicotine patches to be free on the NHS

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    Re: On the subject of taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    They are the people that are preventing the really needy from getting what they need.
    Who causes the biggest problem? Who constitutes the biggest burden to the decent, honest hardworking citizen?

    The lazy scrounger who takes a few thousand per year off the State instead of finding a job.

    or

    Big Companies (and small-fry Wannabes like Martin) who deprive the Public Pot of thousands, if not millions by Tax evasion/avoidance.

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