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Thread: Blues Competition - HOW??

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Blues Competition - HOW??

    OK. Ceroc are running a National Blues competition (not to be confused with the 'Other' National Blues competition ). Some fine people as judges .. esp the Barkers BUT ... how do you judge Blues dancing???

    Is there the old chestnut of "Very nice ... but is it really Blues?? What about the lead/follow v choreographed moves? More importantly, I've always seen Blues more as an 'internal' dance ... where its all about the connection between you and your partner. How do you then convert that to a 'projection to the judges' type dance??

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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    I would say a lot about "Swing the Blues" and "National Blues Competition". I would be talking about "Passing Off". But I won't because I'm not helping Ceroc.

    On the subject of judging, I think there need to be clear guidelines for competitors so they know what the judges are looking for.

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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    OK. Ceroc are running a National Blues competition (not to be confused with the 'Other' National Blues competition ). Some fine people as judges .. esp the Barkers BUT ... how do you judge Blues dancing???

    Is there the old chestnut of "Very nice ... but is it really Blues?? What about the lead/follow v choreographed moves? More importantly, I've always seen Blues more as an 'internal' dance ... where its all about the connection between you and your partner. How do you then convert that to a 'projection to the judges' type dance??
    Hopefully they are going to look for connection, nothing to do with looking around and facing the front. All about the musicallity, which I hope is the main judging thing.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    The rules are here:
    Ceroc Escape Breeze Weekender

    The relevant bits seem to be:
    * Couples will dance to music chosen by the organisers which may be of any slow Blues fusion genre
    ...
    * Blues dance is lead by the music and this is a freestyle competition, so couples will be marked down if there is evidence of an entirely choreographed routine
    * We want this to remain a Blues ‘dance’ competition, so only 1 Aerial* move will be permitted per couple per piece of music and technical difficulty will not be judged according aerial moves
    ...
    * The essence of Blues dancing is close and connected and couples will be expected to demonstrate this throughout the competition.
    * Whilst it will be acceptable for people to interpret the music to adopt fusion styles of Blues (Swing Blues, Jive Blues, West Coast Blues) dancing an outright non blues style will result in disqualification. This is not a West Coast Swing or Modern Jive competition

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    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    only 1 Aerial* move will be permitted per couple per piece of music and technical difficulty will not be judged according aerial moves
    Is there anyone out there who can translate this into English?

    If they are saying that you won't gain extra points with the judges for doing an aerial, then why bother allowing them at all?

    If they are saying that you won't gain extra points with the judges for doing a difficult aerial, then doesn't that put pressure on all couples to do an aerial during each dance?

    While I wouldn't say that blues is the antithesis of aerials, I wouldn't think of aerials as an important element of a quality blues dance.

    I guess as an "open" competition they'll be expecting entries primarily from the sort of dancer to whom aerials are no big deal. I feel sorry for couples who would like to have entered a more down-to-earth category, without having to resort to the DWAS competition.
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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Is there anyone out there who can translate this into English?
    I think it means:
    Do an aerial if you have to, but you won't get extra technical credit for aerials
    Which presumably also means you won't get penalised if you don't do aerials.

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    If they are saying that you won't gain extra points with the judges for doing an aerial, then why bother allowing them at all?
    Possibly because Blues is such an improvisational genre, that it may just "feel good" to do an aerial to match the music, so they're allowing for the possibility?

    Or maybe they just want to keep David and Lily happy

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    While I wouldn't say that blues is the antithesis of aerials, I wouldn't think of aerials as an important element of a quality blues dance.
    No, but then I don't know what Blues dancing is anyway, so I wouldn't know what to exclude / include.

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I guess as an "open" competition they'll be expecting entries primarily from the sort of dancer to whom aerials are no big deal. I feel sorry for couples who would like to have entered a more down-to-earth category, without having to resort to the DWAS competition.
    I don't see it's relevant - if you're neither penalised nor rewarded for aerials, but for general overall technical proficiency, then it doesn't matter whether you do them or not. No big deal, in other words.

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    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    OK. Ceroc are running a National Blues competition (not to be confused with the 'Other' National Blues competition ). Some fine people as judges .. esp the Barkers BUT ... how do you judge Blues dancing???

    Is there the old chestnut of "Very nice ... but is it really Blues?? What about the lead/follow v choreographed moves? More importantly, I've always seen Blues more as an 'internal' dance ... where its all about the connection between you and your partner. How do you then convert that to a 'projection to the judges' type dance??
    Actually the Blues champs is an 'open' competition which means that anyone can enter, from any Country and of any standard right up to teachers.

    As regards the performance element of it; well Blues is an 'internal' dance in many respects, but connection can still clearly be demonstrated in a competition environment. This can be demonstrated with connection to your partner (i.e. lead and follow) and also connection to the music.

    The emphasis will be on musical interpretation and the rules do specify what the judges will be looking for. This does mean that a series of choreographed moves will be relatively easy to spot and the rules specify that competitors will be marked down for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    Hopefully they are going to look for connection, nothing to do with looking around and facing the front. All about the musicallity, which I hope is the main judging thing.
    As in any dance competition if you want to win the judges have to be able to see your moves. If you're not facing the front whilst performing say, dips and drops for example, then you will not be showing your moves to their best effect. The judges can't judge you on something they can't see.

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Is there anyone out there who can translate this into English?

    If they are saying that you won't gain extra points with the judges for doing an aerial, then why bother allowing them at all?

    If they are saying that you won't gain extra points with the judges for doing a difficult aerial, then doesn't that put pressure on all couples to do an aerial during each dance?

    While I wouldn't say that blues is the antithesis of aerials, I wouldn't think of aerials as an important element of a quality blues dance.

    I guess as an "open" competition they'll be expecting entries primarily from the sort of dancer to whom aerials are no big deal. I feel sorry for couples who would like to have entered a more down-to-earth category, without having to resort to the DWAS competition.
    DJ's already said it. You can do aerials if you want (as mentioned in the rules) but you won't get extra technical credit for doing them, and likewise you won't be marked down for not doing them.

    As to why anyone would want to do them in a Blues comp: Well, there are a fair number of lifts and moves around that are slow and elegant and that would fit within a blues dance - it's not like you'll get people being spun around by their legs or sumersaulting over each other... If it fits the music then there is no reason why an aerial, just like any other move, should not be performed.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Or maybe they just want to keep David and Lily happy
    If they wanted to keep David and Lily happy they'd get rid of the 7 second maximum length...

    Seriously, I think 7 seconds is a bit short, particularly for Blues - as Rocky says, the music suggests slow elegant lifts, not somersaults. And if you do actually do a lift to the music, you don't want to have to put it down early because of an arbitrary 7 second rule. Not that I suspect this will affect many couples one way or the other.

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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    I have seen long balletic sequences in the Channel 4 series where the lady is draped around the man and aloft for a long time, or for that manner both on the ground for a long time, which to me express "blues" beautifully.

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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post

    Seriously, I think 7 seconds is a bit short, particularly for Blues
    I agree. I wished that dance had gone on for ever. One I will never ever forget. That person will always be special to me

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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    As regards the performance element of it; well Blues is an 'internal' dance in many respects, but connection can still clearly be demonstrated in a competition environment. This can be demonstrated with connection to your partner (i.e. lead and follow) and also connection to the music.
    Thanks for your response. I suppose the next question is (the old chestnut) ... define "Blues". Will dnacers be able to get away with doing 'slow Ceroc' ... or is there a guideline as to what style of dancing should be exhibited. Given the tempo it would seem eminently possible for some WCS stars to come in and mop up. Is there any guideline like the old Ceroc comp rule which stated no WCS, R&R, Lindy or other dnace styles are to be used.

    Oh yeah ... before I forget ... congratulations on putting on such an event on the National stage. I know there are other Blues comps ... but anything that raises the profile can only be a good thing.

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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Thanks for your response. I suppose the next question is (the old chestnut) ... define "Blues". Will dnacers be able to get away with doing 'slow Ceroc' ... or is there a guideline as to what style of dancing should be exhibited. Given the tempo it would seem eminently possible for some WCS stars to come in and mop up. Is there any guideline like the old Ceroc comp rule which stated no WCS, R&R, Lindy or other dnace styles are to be used.

    Oh yeah ... before I forget ... congratulations on putting on such an event on the National stage. I know there are other Blues comps ... but anything that raises the profile can only be a good thing.
    I think in the rules it says (can't be arsed to look em up) that this is not a WCS competition or Modern Jive, it's blues, you can use elements of both but note you wont win the competition by dancing a different dance style ie: slow ceroc/WCS etc..

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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    I suppose the next question is (the old chestnut) ... define "Blues".
    Blimey, even I'm bored with that question now. MJ with cuddles. That's ESG's definition, more-or-less, and I think we should stick with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Will dnacers be able to get away with doing 'slow Ceroc' ... or is there a guideline as to what style of dancing should be exhibited. Given the tempo it would seem eminently possible for some WCS stars to come in and mop up. Is there any guideline like the old Ceroc comp rule which stated no WCS, R&R, Lindy or other dnace styles are to be used.
    The rules state, quite clearly:
    Whilst it will be acceptable for people to interpret the music to adopt fusion styles of Blues (Swing Blues, Jive Blues, West Coast Blues) dancing an outright non blues style will result in disqualification. This is not a West Coast Swing or Modern Jive competition

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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    If you're not facing the front whilst performing say, dips and drops for example, then you will not be showing your moves to their best effect. The judges can't judge you on something they can't see.
    Just picking up on this point. Does that mean there will be a 'seated' panel of judges and a definite 'front' to face towards?
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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Blimey, even I'm bored with that question now. MJ with cuddles. That's ESG's definition, more-or-less, and I think we should stick with it.
    Even if, as definitions go, it lacks any form of accuracy?

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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264 View Post
    Even if, as definitions go, it lacks any form of accuracy?
    There's no such thing as an accurate definition of blues - blimey, there's not even an official accurate definition of MJ

    But yeah, it's nice and friendly, and it's better than all this hippy malarky about connection and feeling and stuff...

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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    There's no such thing as an accurate definition of blues - blimey, there's not even an official accurate definition of MJ

    But yeah, it's nice and friendly, and it's better than all this hippy malarky about connection and feeling and stuff...
    Away with you and your teddy-bear-blues. Connection and feeling is hardcore, and not for the faint hearted

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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Just picking up on this point. Does that mean there will be a 'seated' panel of judges and a definite 'front' to face towards?
    It hasn't been decided yet Lory as I guess it will depend on the number of entrants. Either way though I would have thought that the final would be performed before a seated panel.

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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    It hasn't been decided yet Lory as I guess it will depend on the number of entrants. Either way though I would have thought that the final would be performed before a seated panel.
    Have the judges been decided on yet? If so, who are they?

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    Re: Blues Competition - HOW??

    I hope we don't find out.. that way there wont be any sucking up before hand!

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