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Thread: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

  1. #21
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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Laws and policies have to be designed to benefit the most commonly encountered situations. This means that there are bound to be circumstances where the law or the policy works badly or is even counterproductive. That doesn't mean that the law or the policy was wrong from the outset.

    The money that these two get is for their children. If the benefits weren't available, it would be the children who would suffer the most. I think it would be a mistake to assume that if there was no welfare state this couple would have refrained from having children. There was no welfare state to speak of until the last 60 years and yet there were plenty of enormous families that ended up in the workhouse.

    Does it make you grind your teeth and look daggers? Of course.

    Is it a symbol of something drastically wrong with our society? No, just the opposite.

  2. #22
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Have to say that I do agree with you about the welfare state Barry, even if it annoys me!

    (what you say, not agreeing with you annoying me)

    However, wasn't it lack of decent contraception that meant that people had larger families in the past? I heard somewhere (probably the radio) that the fastest way to reduce population size is to educate a society's women, and make contraception available.

    I'd still like to know though, why so many? If they like children fair enough, but why quite so many? Did it become a habit?

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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    However, wasn't it lack of decent contraception that meant that people had larger families in the past?
    Partly, but there are a lot of other factors - it's just part of the transition from a rural to an urban exconomy. The richer a society gets, the less kids there tend to be in the families, basically.

    It's called "Demographic transition", apparently:
    Demographic transition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Have to say that I do agree with you about the welfare state Barry, even if it annoys me!

    (what you say, not agreeing with you annoying me)

    However, wasn't it lack of decent contraception that meant that people had larger families in the past? I heard somewhere (probably the radio) that the fastest way to reduce population size is to educate a society's women, and make contraception available.

    I'd still like to know though, why so many? If they like children fair enough, but why quite so many? Did it become a habit?
    They did have contraception in earlier times, it just wasn't reliable. The rhythm method, coitus interruptus, condoms made from things other than rubber, herbal remedies (some of which may have been effective...). What changed with the introduction of the pill was that it became safe for unmarried women to have sex without fear of getting pregnant, that's what led to the big social changes. There had always been methods that would be to some extent reliable for married couples who'd had enough children.

    It's also possible that there is a compulsion some women have to keep bearing children, just as people have a compulsion to wash their hands several times an hour. That's just speculation on my part.

    So the 21st century in many ways is not so different from the previous centuries as we usually tend to imagine.

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    Registered User Isis's Avatar
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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    So, if we move me and my 3 kids in with you and yours, give up our jobs and burn your house to the ground, we'll be quids in!
    ...and have another 6 kids between you

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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    ...and have another 6 kids between you
    What the hell, I'm up for it

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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post

    What the hell, I'm up for it
    You'd have to be !!!

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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    ...and have another 6 kids between you
    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    What the hell, I'm up for it
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebeard View Post
    You'd have to be !!!
    TAXI FOR DT PLEASE..........!!!!!!!

  9. #29
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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    What a long article. By the time I got to the end, the kids had ages by 1 or 2 years... Pah. Daily Mail
    4 kids had stayed the same age and 8 kids had got older, some by 2 years, how did that happen? Also, what about poor Harry, he started of being from Sam,s previous relationship, and then by the end of the report beame a product of the new relationship? Was Harry a love child?

    How did that one slip through the editing stage?

    It was by 2 authors, DAN NEWLING and DANIEL BATES - maybe one wrote the first bit and one wrote the second bit!!!

  10. #30
    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    How did that one slip through the editing stage?
    I know. I hate the Mail. Apart from the inattention to detail, it's just the misogynist tone to the writing. I haven't commented on the Madonna thread, just because I know I'd rant about how they pick on her appearance, because she's a successful woman.

  11. #31
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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Hypocrites.

    If you could you would. I dont mean have 12 kids but if you could gain what they have gained i wounder how many would.

  12. #32
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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    Hypocrites.

    If you could you would. I dont mean have 12 kids but if you could gain what they have gained i wounder how many would.
    NSS! Doesn't mean we shouldn't have a good old moan about it though. We're British, that's what we do best, except maybe queuing.

  13. #33
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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    Hypocrites.

    If you could you would. I dont mean have 12 kids but if you could gain what they have gained i wounder how many would.
    Funny you should say that.

    I wouldn't have started this thread if I thought I would do the same.

    As I have already mentioned (yes I know...it's getting boring now) I would be much better off financially if I sat on my arse all day and didn't go to work. I'm sure my children would be happier too if I was there to pick them up from school every day and be a full time mum. But I wouldn't be setting a very good example fot them would I?

    "Listen son...its ok for you to leave your wife and kids, don't worry, the government will house her and pay all the bills"

  14. #34
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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Funny you should say that.

    I wouldn't have started this thread if I thought I would do the same.

    As I have already mentioned (yes I know...it's getting boring now) I would be much better off financially if I sat on my arse all day and didn't go to work. I'm sure my children would be happier too if I was there to pick them up from school every day and be a full time mum. But I wouldn't be setting a very good example fot them would I?

    "Listen son...its ok for you to leave your wife and kids, don't worry, the government will house her and pay all the bills"

    A simlpe "i would'nt" would have done

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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    A simlpe "i would'nt" would have done
    Would it? You can't say anything on here without having to justify the ass out of it.

  16. #36
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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Would it? You can't say anything on here without having to justify the ass out of it.
    ok sorry

  17. #37
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    Dont get me started




    I would just ask them 1 question. No malice intended.

    "Why have 12 kids when you cannot support them?"

    As I say, no malice towards them intended. There MAY be a valid reason.
    I use to get wound up by things like this and lets face the Daily Mail usually find some family to pose in stupid pics with the 12 kids thing

    Now I like to think at least some of those kids will pay my pension

  18. #38
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    Re: 12 kids, no job and a luxury 8 bedroom detached house

    I come from a big family; 10 children. My father has worked hard all his life as a builder, my mother stayed at home and looked after the clan. There were times when money was tight but we were brought up in a home full of love. Looking back now I can appreciate some of the sacrifices my parents made on my behalf. We never wanted for anything, every year we used to have two weeks at the seaside, there was always good food on the table, our home was always warm and none of us had holes in our clothes or shoes. None of us have been in prision, we all have had a good education and we have jobs and families of our own now.

    We were not catholics, or scroungers working the system, the reason that my parents had so many kids is because they enjoyed having kids around to share their life and love with. Now we have all left that happy nest mum is a professional child minder working from home; dad is semi-retired... but he will work until he drops as he loves his profession.

    The point I am trying to make is that you do not have to be a social security scrounger to have a large family. Please don't tar all large households with the Daily Mail or catholic brushes.

    However, there are extreme examples in every walk of life.... it is hard to know what to do for the best in this sort of situation. The kids in that family deserve to have a happy home, but it seems very irresponsible to have kids that you have no way to provide for. The flip side of this coin is... would you really want to live every single day looking after a dozen children? It's bedlam and the laundry never stops! So they have a large house.... they need it. As for £44,000 per year, you do the sums - there are fourteen of them. You will also probably find that a large chunk of that 44k is for the rent of the home. I doubt that, as the Daily Mail seems to suggest, they're lighting fat cigars with £20 notes as they wash their feet in French champagne.

    Nice hatchet job by the Daily Mail though...... if only they could have gotten the words terrorist and paedophile into the copy somewhere they would have had a full house on that story (no pun intended - heh heh)!

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