Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

[fletch]

4, they think, you'll think, they fancy you


)

we have got over this one now haven't we 'Foxy'

[TA Guy]

Yes, but even that benefit is secondary to my original observation which is that looking at your leader will help you to pick up visual aspects of the lead and thereby have the practical benefit of making your job as follower and their job as leader easier. Practicality trumps politeness in my book.

I've always been a bit dubious about this eye contact thing. Sure, if you need constant reassurance they don't think your hidious or useless, yup, if your in a competition, it's one of the ways judges avoid subjective stuff (easier to judge smiles and eye contact rather than make subjective judgements about is the dance actually any good), yup....
....but to me 'looking at your partner' is a tini bit different to actually making 'eye contact'. 'Looking at your partner' is a must, and while I can see, I dunno, stepping back into a basket and making 'eye contact' is 'good', I don't get this 'must have eye contact most of the time' stuff.

Truth be told, I kinda like it when the lady uses her head to make angles and shapes, (different, but similar to spotting. Love all that stuff). They still watch you, as in the whole of you, pherpherial vision is great, but actually making 'eye contact' all the time. Creepy.

So OK. Educate me.
What visual aspects of the lead am I missing ?

[robd]

I've always been a bit dubious about this eye contact thing. Sure, if you need constant reassurance they don't think your hidious or useless, yup, if your in a competition, it's one of the ways judges avoid subjective stuff (easier to judge smiles and eye contact rather than make subjective judgements about is the dance actually any good), yup....
....but to me 'looking at your partner' is a tini bit different to actually making 'eye contact'. 'Looking at your partner' is a must, and while I can see, I dunno, stepping back into a basket and making 'eye contact' is 'good', I don't get this 'must have eye contact most of the time' stuff.

Truth be told, I kinda like it when the lady uses her head to make angles and shapes, (different, but similar to spotting. Love all that stuff). They still watch you, as in the whole of you, pherpherial vision is great, but actually making 'eye contact' all the time. Creepy.

So OK. Educate me.
What visual aspects of the lead am I missing ?

If you believe that ''Looking at your partner' is a must" and that "They still watch you, as in the whole of you, pherpherial vision is great," I don't believe that there are "visual aspects of the lead" you are missing.

I started the thread originally not to revive the debate about what 'eye contact' adds to a dance (or, equally importantly, what lack of it detracts from a dance) - I just wanted to highlight the practical benefit of looking at a partner in order to pick up visual clues such as an offered hand at it's most basic through to a shaping of my body to indicate to which side of me I would like you to pass before any lead forward is given. I don't follow at all often (or at all well) so I base this observation on the fact that followers whom I admire and who give me the most satisfying dances do tend to focus their attention on me - doesn't mean there isn't scope for styling using the head just that the default is to focus on your partner.

[bigdjiver]

A lot of the less experienced dancers avoid eye contact because it detracts from the concentration they are putting into the dance. I let those be, as I do with those that just do not want to look at me.
For those that I think it is a bad habit which is detracting from their enjoyment I will deliberately put my eyes into their line of view, often in a silly manner, and see if I can raise a smile. The dance usually works a lot better after that.

[David Bailey]

I've always been a bit dubious about this eye contact thing.

Yeah... I'm having second thoughts myself now. Like a lot of the simplistic rules (take small steps, it's always the leader's fault, etc. etc,), things get more complicated after a while.

....but to me 'looking at your partner' is a tini bit different to actually making 'eye contact'. 'Looking at your partner' is a must, and while I can see, I dunno, stepping back into a basket and making 'eye contact' is 'good', I don't get this 'must have eye contact most of the time' stuff.

Eye contact conventions in salsa differ - sometimes guys don't give any contact, sometimes they give too much - but if you're doing the close-dancing thing, it's pretty much impossible to give eye contact.

Eye contact conventions in AT are probably a no-no - the lady should either have her eyes closed or should be gazing intently at our manly bosoms.

Eye contact in Ballroom is also a no-no I believe? Although it seems mandatory in Latin.

So I'm not sure... If I had to make a guess, I'd say the convention should follow the style of MJ you prefer.

[nebula]

So many people seem to think that only less experienced dancers don't have eye contact. Funnily enough, I am not a "more" experienced dancer, but when I first started - almost a year ago now, I had no reservations whatsoever about looking my partner in the eyes. Now, though, I avoid it - for reasons I can't quite identify myself.
I do watch my partner's whole body, so as not to miss a proferred hand or an angle at which he is turning, but the actual eye-lock is very very rare. I also found that sometimes I actually missed a lead by concentratng too much on the face rather than hand of my partner - here's the reason 11!
And reason 12 - I am quite short, so sometimes to look my partner in the eye, I would have to tip my head so far back, as to completely lose my balance!!

[MartinHarper]

I think rob may have confused the thread a little by using the phrase "eye contact" when he's really talking about visual lead/follow. Watching the guy like a hawk (and not just his eyes) certainly helps for visual lead/follow. Thus the trickiness in blindfolded following.

[Amir]

I love those dances where there is such a magical connection between you and your partner that the eye contact is a spontaneous shared moment, you know exactly what the other person is thinking and time freezes around you.

The rest of (which is most of) the time I prefer little to none.

That’s a preference, not a recommendation. But someone staring at me can be uncomfortable, which makes the above ideal situation very unlikely.

[nebula]

I love those dances where there is such a magical connection between you and your partner that the eye contact is a spontaneous shared moment, you know exactly what the other person is thinking and time freezes around you.

sigh... It is absolutely magical when that happens.
More often than not, though, it is the "uncomfortable" stare situation.

[JiveLad]

I only usually get one dance a night when my partner is looking away/scanning. Last night it was a woman who always asks me to dance - so that is a bit strange.......dunno why she bothers to ask me.

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Anyway, one move which can 'force' eye contact in a fun way is this: into an Hallelujah - bring the hands into a position in front of you, where both your faces are blocked from vision and hold it there. Next at the appropriate point in the music do a 'peek-a-boo' by moving the hands out to see each other - and then back in-out-in-out as you wish.

[Cruella]

Anyway, one move which can 'force' eye contact in a fun way is this: into an Hallelujah - .

It may force eye contact, but it would come with a cringe! I hate the Hallelujah (and the armjive, thanks to Rob).
Besides, why would you want to force the eye contact? If it's not done willingly, then what's the attraction?

[Lou]

During last night's freestyle, I was standing out chatting to a friend. We were watching the teacher & commenting on how stylish he was, when we noticed that he never looked at his partner. Somehow, the dance looked disconnected & they appeared to simply be going through the motions. Two fabulous dancers - yet it lacked a spark. As this was a new venue for me, I didn't know whether this was the teacher's style (like H at Cheltenham, for instance).

As it happens, I got the teacher for the next dance. As I'm cheeky, and as the song was "characterful" I thought I'd find out....

Totally cheeky & connected dance! It started out the same as with the previous lady - he didn't look at me. But I started playing & was rewarded with lots of appropriate eye contact (without staring *lol*). Maybe it's down to the partner & song playing. I'm sure Tango tunes require a certain amount of detachment - but if you get Hey Big Spender, one has to go for cheese....

[JiveLad]

It may force eye contact, but it would come with a cringe! I hate the Hallelujah (and the armjive, thanks to Rob).
Besides, why would you want to force the eye contact? If it's not done willingly, then what's the attraction?

Apologies - I did not really explain the context of it well enough for you to understand.

As I said - eye contact is not really a big issue in my dances - (and I never force it). It was a suggestion if someone was having that problem - to do it in a fun and non-threatening way.

It always gets a smile - and it is fun. That's all. Please don't take it too seriously!

[Trouble]

Jive Lad your dancing has always been fun but i liked it best when you were a shy newbie, who did'nt have a clue about musicality, eye contact and connectivity. I used to enjoy making you blush.

Mind you, now your a little raver, excellent in all aspects of the above and our dances are most enjoyable.

[JiveLad]

Jive Lad your dancing has always been fun but i liked it best when you were a shy newbie, who did'nt have a clue about musicality, eye contact and connectivity. I used to enjoy making you blush.

Mind you, now your a little raver, excellent in all aspects of the above and our dances are most enjoyable.

Thank you!

And just to be clear what precipitated my metamorphosis was your comment to me earlier this year. Just 2 words which made me think a lot and start to change. You may not even remember saying them as you looked into my eyes (eye contact) and said: "Loosen up!".

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[Little Miss]

Surely eye contact in dancing is the same as eye contact in a conversation? You need it to determine where the conversation/dance is going and to pick up on subtle changes. You wouldn't stare at someone whilst talking to them but you would have some kind of eye contact. There's all sorts of different eye contact depending on the partner and the way you react to one another. Sometimes eye contact can be flirtatious, sometimes cheeky or silly, sometimes intimate, sometimes scared and sometimes serious - all manner of emotions that occur when dancing depending on the dancers, the track and the general ambiance of the venue amongst other stuff.

I personally feel like dancers are just going through the motions when they don't look at me. Eye contact doesn't automatically mean connection though, more often than not I can have eye contact with someone and have no feeling of connection whatsoever, others the connection is immediate and fabulous and down to a combination of eye contact, smiles and most importantly the dance and its musicality.

Looking at a lead is imperative to follow the dance but in terms of connectivity and relaxing I think smiling goes a lot further to make a dance great and dancing to the actual music even futher than that .

[Lazy Dave]

I would like to throw my twopenneth into this debate if I may… as I recently visited a club where just about all the ladies did a similar thing – specifically, at the end of the slot (or at the end of each move) they would ‘automatically’ turn out (position their body at an angle to their slot) without me leading her to, and look at the floor. Any leader will tell you that this is the most inopportune moment for a follower not have their wits about them as all the information needed for the next part of the dance is being given via a balance of ‘body’ and ‘arm’ lead. If the follower isn’t watching at that point the result is an imbalance of arm lead, or in other words, pulling your partner around the dance floor.
I absolutely despair when this practise is then turned into a style point by the follower… you know the one - as she looks away she raises her wrist to her forehead as though feigning a ‘fainting’ action, which leads me to believe that somebody out there is teaching this!!

When all is said and done, this is all about feeling a connection with your partner, which is why we’ve chosen to learn a partner dance and not line dancing for example, so you have to take it as a ‘given’ that it’s going to involve a certain amount of interaction on the floor. We’re all different and all have our comfort zones which is great as long as we all understand that there’s a time and a place for everything and it just so happens that on the dance floor you HAVE to be connected with your partner.

[MartinHarper]

Surely eye contact in dancing is the same as eye contact in a conversation? You need it to determine where the conversation/dance is going and to pick up on subtle changes. You wouldn't stare at someone whilst talking to them but you would have some kind of eye contact.

For many introverts, that "some kind of eye contact" would be a few seconds at the beginning of the conversation, and another few seconds at the end. I give way more eye contact when I'm dancing than when I'm chatting, precisely because so many dancers are needy extroverts.

[David Bailey]

I give way more eye contact when I'm dancing than when I'm chatting, precisely because so many dancers are needy extroverts.

I often turn my head away when chatting, to put my ear closer to the person so I can hear them properly - just a habit from chatting in very loud environments.

[dave the scaffolder]

Thank you!

And just to be clear what precipitated my metamorphosis was your comment to me earlier this year. Just 2 words which made me think a lot and start to change. You may not even remember saying them as you looked into my eyes (eye contact) and said: "Loosen up!".

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She said two words to me recently it was not loosen up it was

F*KC OFF
xxx xxx DTS Dave xxx xxx