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Thread: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

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    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    Except it's not really eye contact in the sense I have seen it discussed on here before.

    I went to St Neots Ceroc last night and one of the things that struck me is how many of my less enjoyable dances were those where the follower was looking anywhere but at me. I should pre-empt Cruella by saying that it's wholly understandable that ladies wouldn't voluntarily look at my face but I think that even were I wearing the Silverfox cut out mask that did the rounds at Southport last year the situation would have been the same. Conversely my best dances were with a couple of people who were looking at me throughout the dance.

    There's been much discussion in the past of how much enjoyment good eye contact can add to a dance - it enhances the feeling of connection, the feeling that your partner wants to dance with you and isn't just scanning the room for their next partner - and I agree with all that. However there's a more fundamental practical aspect to it. If as a follower you are not looking at me you are likely to miss information about the lead I am trying to give whether it be as simple as not noticing an offered hand or, more subtly, the shaping of my body to try and direct you. It's no coincidence that many of those who were looking at me least last night were those whom I felt were most guilty of dancing their own dance and ignoring the lead. Watch most of the very good followers that you know and I'll bet that for the majority of the dance their eyes are focussed firmly on their partner.

    It made me wonder whether their is a role for the Ceroc teachers in this to give advice to new followers as to how concentrating visually on your partner will give you clues about the lead and thus make your job easier? The teacher last night did mention eye contact in relation to one of the moves in the intermediate routine but mentioned it as a styling point.

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    ...my less enjoyable dances were those where the follower was looking anywhere but at me.
    There's been much discussion in the past of how much enjoyment good eye contact can add to a dance - it enhances the feeling of connection, the feeling that your partner wants to dance with you and isn't just scanning the room for their next partner - and I agree with all that.
    However there's a more fundamental practical aspect to it. If as a follower you are not looking at me you are likely to miss information about the lead I am trying to give whether it be as simple as not noticing an offered hand or, more subtly, the shaping of my body to try and direct you.
    I think you're spot on Rob when you say that eye contact is simply essential to make the dance work to its full potential.
    It is important on so many different levels.

    One, a good lead would come from the point(s) of connection as much as from visual clues: the body should be used to project the connection in the direction the follow is to move. Incidentally Sarah (van Drake) said only this weekend in one of her classes that 90% of her follow is based on visual, because Kyle does such a great job of using his body to project the connection where he wants her to move.

    Two, there are moves that require the follow to catch the lead's hand, which although not impossible (if the move is well preped), are far more difficult if the follow doesn't see (imagine she's blindfolded).

    Three, as a follow, I know that my eyes are constantly on my lead (if I'm really into the dance) because that allows me to focus entirely on him and how I might contribute more to the dance (add stuffs), whether it is on his body position (can I do stuff without making him trip / disturb too much his movement) or face (is he looking at me and will he see something is going to be different / I will require time / support).

    And four, obviously eye contact allow for communication and add an emotional content to the dance, whether it is fun, intense, surprising, or even not enjoyable (painful maybe!).

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    It made me wonder whether their is a role for the Ceroc teachers in this to give advice to new followers as to how concentrating visually on your partner will give you clues about the lead and thus make your job easier? The teacher last night did mention eye contact in relation to one of the moves in the intermediate routine but mentioned it as a styling point.
    It's a while since I've been to one of Emma Pettitt's lessons, but I do remember her telling us all to "look at your partner" regularly in classes. (Usually when dancing through the moves to music).
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    Eye-contact can quite often be a confidence thing, I know that a lot of new people to dancing find it one of the most difficult hurdles to overcome (I even remember that some very experienced dancers used to find eye-contact pretty much impossible). It's one thing to hold someone's hand and dance, it's another to look at someone pretty-much constantly for four minutes whilst they look back at you.

    I agree with all that Caro said in terms of eye-contact being beneficial, but if people find that hard then they should at least try to pay attention to their partner! The worst dances I've had, as both a lead and a follow, in this respect have been where my partner is looking around the room or smiling at other people and not really even noticing I was there, attached to their arm and dancing with them. If looking into my eyes freaks you out (I know, it's understandable ) then the least you could do is pay attention to how and where my body is moving and concentrate on me as a dancer (no, this is not an invitation for my partners to stare blatently at my tits or bum).

    It's common courtesy to listen when someone speaks to you, it's likewise polite to pay attention to the person you're dancing with.

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    One of the reasons I dislike dancing on a very busy dancefloor is the constant need to look round to work out where it's safe to lead my partner.. which also results in less eye contact, of course.
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    One of the reasons I dislike dancing on a very busy dancefloor is the constant need to look round to work out where it's safe to lead my partner.. which also results in less eye contact, of course.
    100% agree with that.. I often apologize to my partner because I'm looking around so much that I'm not even managing to acknowledge that they're there!

    There is a lady who dances locally near me. Myself, Caz and this lady all started at the same time, so we kinda stick together around our local area.. She doesn't look at the person she's dancing with at all.. I often try and prompt her to look at me, but it's almost as if it's a chore and she'd much rather look around the room!

    Any tips on how to tell her about eye contact? I spend most of my dances with her just thinking "I wish you'd bloody look at me!"

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    If, as a follower, you are uncomfortable looking at someone's eyes (and I appreciate that many people are - I think Zebra Woman needs her confidence building in this area ) you can still look at the leader's chest and benefit from the visual clues a leader may give without the discomfort you may feel from eye to eye contact. Watch Cat or Spikey Blond when they are dancing - they both do this very well.

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    There is a lady who dances locally near me. Myself, Caz and this lady all started at the same time, so we kinda stick together around our local area.. She doesn't look at the person she's dancing with at all.. I often try and prompt her to look at me, but it's almost as if it's a chore and she'd much rather look around the room!

    A chore {???} looking at You?? She must be MAD!!!



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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    Eye contact is a funny thing - too much or too little can be bad. There are guys I dance with who seem totally oblivious to my presence, or who stare at me as if transfixed and can give me the creepsm (not you Beo, before you start ) I assume that there are women who do this to you guys?

    I usually look, then look away, look back again. And if you can't make eye contact for the entire dance, then look at their face at least. It feels better but less threatening than being gawped at contastantly as it's more natural.

    As for getting someone to look at you whilst dancing, I can't see any way you can do it without actually speaking to them about it. They may not even realise that they're supposed to, or that they're not doing it. I guess that you could make a joke of it - ask if there's any reason why they never look at you whilst dancing, if you've got spinach on your teeth or something. And then suggest that it'd improve the dance for yourself if they could try looking at you sometimes.

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    I think there's a few reasons why people don't look

    1, they're shy and find eye contact embarassing

    2, They're completely oblivious and in a world of their own (bad connection all round)

    3, they really 'don't' like dancing with you and 'would' rather be dancing with someone else

    4, they think, you'll think, they fancy you

    5, they DO fancy you

    6, they're worried how it will be perceived by 'others' i.e. G/friend, B/friend. partners or any old gossip

    7, Its crowded and there's bad floorcraft going on and they're having to be very safety concious (hopefully they'd explain this is what they're doing )

    8, you've got bad breath

    9, they're looking for their next victim

    As for me, I love eye contact and a dance, no matter how skillful the lead is, would never be memorable without it!
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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    One for you girly trouts out there in dance land.......

    Look the bas*ard in the eye girls, he is more nervous than you are, as he is thinking about his next move...

    If you look him in the eye and smile...he is yours.

    XXX XXX DTS Dave

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    I'm with DTS. I have been guilty of this in the past and it has been remarked to me. I have worked really really hard to improve that part of my connection. Still not there quite - but I am working on it.

    Still I find some that follow but dont look - to which I usually add "Remember me??" with a cheeky wink/smile.

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    It's not just a female issue, it works both ways

    There is a dancer who I used to dance with. He looks everywhere but at you, makes you feel like he is doing you a favour by dancing with you, but it might just be his personality because when you have a conversation with him he can't look at you in the face, hardly ever smiles and constantly thinks the world is against him.

    A sad sad bloke really.

    Also once you realise it's something you need to work on you can.

    A certain female amongst us, found it really hard to do until a certain cunning guy told her. Her determination to overcome this was awesome. You wouldn't think to look at her now, how she used to be.


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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    One of my most memorable (and funny) dance moments was when this Welsh voice came hurtling over the dance floor shouting "for F**ks sake women look him in the F**kin eyes!". A comment clearly directed at me and yep, you've guessed it from the ever subtle DTS

    Having been fortunate enough to have been raised in dancing, over the last seven months, by many great dancers around St Neots (SW's class) I quickly cottoned onto the fact that eye contact makes all the difference, mainly, for me, the difference between an ordinary dance and a spine tingling one

    I was at St Neots last night and danced with the delectable Robd and had some lovely dances with him. Having danced with him previously on Friday night I knew that he was a great dancer and I could trust him to look after me on the dance floor and therefore concentrate on the dance. However, at St Neots Ceroc particularly the floor craft is terrible and most men do not protect their follows and thus we end up with various injuries/bruises at the end of the night. I must confess to spending a lot more time than I would like surveying the floor to ensure that no one stands on me and visa versa. I find that only the better dancers generally can manage the floor and the dance whilst still retaining eye contact.

    Having said this, I love dancing in St Neots and you really must come back more often Rob .

    Little Miss

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Miss View Post
    I was at St Neots last night and danced with the delectable Robd and had some lovely dances with him. Having danced with him previously on Friday night I knew that he was a great dancer and I could trust him to look after me on the dance floor and therefore concentrate on the dance.
    Yeah, he is pretty great, isn't he?!

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I think there's a few reasons why people don't look

    1, they're shy and find eye contact embarassing

    2, They're completely oblivious and in a world of their own (bad connection all round)

    3, they really 'don't' like dancing with you and 'would' rather be dancing with someone else

    4, they think, you'll think, they fancy you

    5, they DO fancy you

    6, they're worried how it will be perceived by 'others' i.e. G/friend, B/friend. partners or any old gossip

    7, Its crowded and there's bad floorcraft going on and they're having to be very safety concious (hopefully they'd explain this is what they're doing )

    8, you've got bad breath

    9, they're looking for their next victim

    As for me, I love eye contact and a dance, no matter how skillful the lead is, would never be memorable without it!
    10. We have an eye defect that means one eye becomes lazy , resulting in either a) becoming self concious about it and therefore looking away from the partner eyes, or b) the partner is looking at our wrong eye, and the good one is actually making single eye contact

    <-- maybe I should dance with these on, then no one would know!

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    I think the basic point is that even if you can't/don't want to make eye contact, at least looking in the general direction of the person you're dancing with is only polite.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I think the basic point is that even if you can't/don't want to make eye contact, at least looking in the general direction of the person you're dancing with is only polite.
    Yes, but even that benefit is secondary to my original observation which is that looking at your leader will help you to pick up visual aspects of the lead and thereby have the practical benefit of making your job as follower and their job as leader easier. Practicality trumps politeness in my book.

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    Eye contact isn't really the same thing as looking at your partner. They should really teach 'don't look at the stage' rather than 'try and out-stare your partner'.

    Having the teacher not dance along with the class 'to music' would help here (but then I'd be stuffed when I get there late, and try and pick up the routine at the end

    Sean

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    Re: Look at me, woman! (or Eye Contact.....again)

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Yes, but even that benefit is secondary to my original observation which is that looking at your leader will help you to pick up visual aspects of the lead and thereby have the practical benefit of making your job as follower and their job as leader easier. Practicality trumps politeness in my book.
    Yeah, you're right, but when I'm dancing with a person who is not looking at me, I feel greater the lack of politeness, rather than the lack of practicality – perhaps because I've become adept at dancing with people who appear that they'd rather be elsewhere. Maybe next time I'll just let them go...
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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