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Thread: Sunday Smoove

  1. #61
    Registered User Rhythm King's Avatar
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    No, let's take the p1ss out of the juvenile, pathetic attempt to appeal to younger people, spelling of 'Smoove' a bit more.
    You mean you don't think it's hip and groothy?

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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by Mary View Post
    Thanks Mr. UP. Not sure if I can make it tonight, but may try and make it next week. Hope we can catch up on that dance then.

    M
    We have a problem too this evening and can't get there after all the best laid plans

    Will make another effort next weekend

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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    So, how did it go? Anybody for a quick review?

    a weekly WCS freestyle, even disguised under 'serene ceroc', that's really good news for the dance. Best of luck with that Paul

  4. #64
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by Degodier View Post
    I was really disapointed that the beginners WCS course starting Tuesday which I was due to attend has been cancelled due to lack of numbers. Could it be that we've already passed the zenith of it's popularity amongst MJers? I hope not.

    I emailed Cat about the suitabilty of her classes for a complete novice. She said it would be ok, but others have said it will be too difficult. Comments anyone? On the whole I heard positive feedback about Paul and the first six week course that ran. So come on guys, we need you to enrol!!!!!
    Keep your fingers crossed - I believe they hope to run it in October. I posted about this last week on my "WCS or AT" thread. Paul F came back with the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    Yeah. Tis true.

    It has been put down to the fact that the course start date was rushed forward to coincide with the start of the intermediate course and the fact that, at this time of year, its not the best time to entice people in.

    Of course, it COULD be that the level of interest in WCS isnt as big as we thought!! Although I dont think that. I think its just a combo of it being a course (commitment) with a short marketing lead-in time all at the wrong time of year.

    The course will be run but probably at the start of October.

    On a personal note its fairly frustrating for me. I have put a lot of time and effort into generating the syllabus (although I have had help on that part) as well as producing material and ideas for the sessions.
    I just want to teach it NOW

  5. #65
    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by Degodier View Post
    I was really disapointed that the beginners WCS course starting Tuesday which I was due to attend has been cancelled due to lack of numbers. Could it be that we've already passed the zenith of it's popularity amongst MJers? I hope not.
    No. Im not concerned about the interest. I think we kind of rushed getting people to sign up. 3 weeks notice just isnt enough. We had a fair few people signed up but Wessex House is super expensive so we had to wait. The course will be running in October though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Degodier View Post
    I emailed Cat about the suitabilty of her classes for a complete novice. She said it would be ok, but others have said it will be too difficult. Comments anyone? On the whole I heard positive feedback about Paul and the first six week course that ran. So come on guys, we need you to enrol!!!!!
    If Cat has said hers will be suitable then I guess thats all the feedback you need. Im assuming she will be running over the basics, albeit probably quicker than usual.

    Thanks for the kind words about my course. I put a lot of effort into the planning and material preparation for all lessons I teach. It has really hit me this last week actually but it's worth it. I cant take all the credit though. Not only have I had much advice from friends in the U.S but I have also tailored the content and delivery based on the feedback of those who were on my first course.
    From here I hope to build on things by introducing personal video diaries on my website so that I can publish class videos and personal feedback videos for individuals on the courses. Just need to work out how much time thats going to need

    As I say, have a think about it. Cat's course will be great. Otherwise, we will be running ours around the start of October.

    Irrespective of where you go, as long as you keep on with WCS. Thats the main thing.

  6. #66
    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Keep your fingers crossed - I believe they hope to run it in October. I posted about this last week on my "WCS or AT" thread. Paul F came back with the following:

    Ah! You must have been posting while I was writing

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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    So, how did it go? Anybody for a quick review?

    a weekly WCS freestyle, even disguised under 'serene ceroc', that's really good news for the dance. Best of luck with that Paul
    Here is my take on events

    Pros

    Nice easy to find venue, Great floor, nice bar area and a good standard of dancers(Alot of familiar faces from twickenham were there which was good to see), Great playlist from Paul F and it was strictly WCS music which sort of turned away the cerocers who came to the venue which is a shame, but then as i love WCS Music then i`ve no complaints, Free iced water, lots of space and most importantly!! 2 and a half hours of non stop freestyle! i`m thinking next sunday i will have died and gone to west coast swing heaven, Bisley workshop sunday afternoon then straight onto sunday smoove for more tuition and freestyle!!!!! sounds like a fantastic pre southport warm up to me....

    Cons
    My only slight concern is that if we pay strictly WCS Music that is not Cerocable then we may not get the numbers to make the whole night work but what is needed is regular support, any ideas and suggestions from people would be welcome......does anyone think that posting the track listings prior to the event would make a difference to whether people turned up or not???

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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    My only slight concern is that if we pay strictly WCS Music that is not Cerocable ...
    I thought one of the selling points of Ceroc was that you could dance it to any music. I can see that for a WCS dancer, it would be hard to not dance WCS to a WCS track - why will a Ceroc dancer care?

    Sean

  9. #69
    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    So, how did it go? Anybody for a quick review?

    a weekly WCS freestyle, even disguised under 'serene ceroc', that's really good news for the dance. Best of luck with that Paul

    Well, I may as well give my own feedback Weird!

    I must confess that I felt a bit (ok, a lot) guilty on the way home last night.

    The advertisement said things like Liquid Latin, CLub beats......or something like that. As the music was purely my playlist I have to confess that it was all WCS. In fact, it was wall to wall WCS. Even worse than that I put in a number of blues numbers which would have been VERY difficult to MJ to.

    On a purely personal level, I loved it. They were tracks that truly 'swung' but, as I say, I think I dissapointed a number of MJ'ers. For that I apologise.

    I said it previously that I enjoy cross-style dances. A lot of people still struggle to dance a whole night of WCS. I think, going forward, we need to build in some cautiosly termed "Crossover tracks". Although I dont believe there is such a thing as a true crossover track, we can build in a more even spread where different styles can be danced. Thats the plan. Of course, its still considered a WCS night though.

    Class
    Im sure im guilty of many things One of these is that I get carried away when Im talking about things that I love. Last night it was the technicalities of the dance.

    I knew, while i was teaching, that I was rambling on too much. We were covering pretty complicated issues such as rolling through the foot when utilising rolling count as well as multiple timing syncopations and isolation controls.
    These are topics I enjoy but, based on feedback, I will be tweaking the delivery style and maybe the content. More muscle memory repetitions and less verbal description.
    For anyone thats booked on (as I know there are a few forumites) dont forget that 15 minutes prior to the class is a recap session from the previous week. I think we will need it with this course


    Venue
    As it was the first week it wasnt as perfect as I would have liked. However, this is a cool venue with masses of potential. The air-con is really nice, there is a great bar (which will be manned if needed), the floor is good and the lighting can be set loads of different ways.
    So, with a bit of tweaking now we know were things are, it promises to be a really good night.


    People
    I was surprised by how many people were there last night. At one point we had to move all tables back to accommodate people on the floor. As I say though, the MJ'ers kind of dissapeared rather early.
    Although this was not what was planned, for those dancing WCS, the feedback was really good.

  10. #70
    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by tsh View Post
    I thought one of the selling points of Ceroc was that you could dance it to any music. I can see that for a WCS dancer, it would be hard to not dance WCS to a WCS track - why will a Ceroc dancer care?

    Sean
    Thats a really good point.

    MJ can, in essence, be danced to any music but I was guilty last night of playing some real dirty blues. As a lot of the music utilises what we call 'swung eights' it makes interpretation from a single-step timing point of view (ceroc) pretty damn difficult.

  11. #71
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    Thats a really good point.

    MJ can, in essence, be danced to any music but I was guilty last night of playing some real dirty blues. As a lot of the music utilises what we call 'swung eights' it makes interpretation from a single-step timing point of view (ceroc) pretty damn difficult.
    Try impossible!

  12. #72
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    My only slight concern is that if we pay strictly WCS Music that is not Cerocable then we may not get the numbers to make the whole night work but what is needed is regular support, any ideas and suggestions from people would be welcome......
    A few:
    • Stop messing around with all this "smoove" stuff, as it's ambiguous and confusing.
    • Stop trying to pretend it's all things to all people, and clearly state that this is primarily a WCS night.
    • Bite the bullet, have a clear view of the market, and accept that the numbers will take a hit initially, but work to maintain / improve them.


    Obviously, that's a risk, but otherwise you'll just get a bunch of disappointed Ceroc(MJ)-ers, which will not help in the long run.

    If you clearly market it as a freestyle night for WCS dancers, you're both providing a venue for the Ceroc -> WCS crossover crowd, and for WCS dancers in general. And the people who come along are likely to be less disappointed, and more likely to return.

  13. #73
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    People
    As I say though, the MJ'ers kind of dissapeared rather early.
    These are the customers who could have been targeted for the (now cancelled) beginners course on Sept. 4th.

  14. #74
    Registered User FoxyFunkster's Avatar
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    A few:
    • Stop messing around with all this "smoove" stuff, as it's ambiguous and confusing.
    Where is the messin around bit??? it`s just a name for the night, no more than that
    • Stop trying to pretend it's all things to all people, and clearly state that this is primarily a WCS night.
    The first line in the description of the night on the Venue flyer states quite clearly, all music will be suitable for WCS, not much pretence there then..............although we have to have a flexible approach to the night in terms of what direction it takes

    Again no pretence here, Ceroc are running an intermediate WCS class before hand and state of the market, and accept that the numbers will take a hit initially, but work to maintain / improve them.

    Take a hit??? i assume ceroc want to have a sunday night that doesn`t exclude anyone if at all possible, so it`s a question of striking the balance between running a night that may not get off the ground if it`s strictly WCS to something that would work if we diluted the music a little so to speak, it`s simply a question of trial and error and finding out what works and what doesn`t


    Obviously, that's a risk, but otherwise you'll just get a bunch of disappointed Ceroc(MJ)-ers, which will not help in the long run

    we had some last night i`m afriad but like i said i don`t think anything is cast in stone, i think a weekly sunday night freestyle like this is a great idea and could be viable for sure but we`ve got to be a little flexible in our approach, therefore the exact branding of the night that you are calling for would be premature IMHO

    If you clearly market it as a freestyle night for WCS dancers, you're both providing a venue for the Ceroc -> WCS crossover crowd, and for WCS dancers in general. And the people who come along are likely to be less disappointed, and more likely to return.
    For reasons earlier stated i do think by Ceroc saying it`s definately this or that gives Ceroc less scope for flexibilty, and that is the most imprtantly thing, as far as i`m concerned, lets see what people want and don`t want and try to work with that.....were you there last night DJ??

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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    • Stop messing around with all this "smoove" stuff, as it's ambiguous and confusing.
    • Stop trying to pretend it's all things to all people, and clearly state that this is primarily a WCS night.
    • Bite the bullet, have a clear view of the market, and accept that the numbers will take a hit initially, but work to maintain / improve them.
    I think that's good advice. Having being once at the T-Jive after a Jango workshop, I was amazed at how little jango was danced in the freestyle.
    I think if people have the possibility to fall back into their 'MJ' mode, they will never really develop their WCS to a standard that will provide them actual enjoyment when freestyling.
    Also at some point I believe we need to stop trying to melt everthing together and call a cat, a cat. Or a WCS freestyle night. Of course, that might be difficult for Ceroc to do without admitting clearly that they are branching out.

    It might be a bit hard at the beginning, but it's so worth it... I speak from experience when I say that it is only when you truly immerse yourself in a WCS freestyle for a few hours than you can notice significant progress. Going a bit irrational now, but something happens 'in your legs', they just become groovy and move naturally in steps and triple steps and syncopations... to the point where you wonder how you could ever MJ again to some tracks. Weird, but real !

  16. #76
    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    You're preaching to the converted here guys

    I want to see it as a pure WCS night. I make no bones about that.

    BUT, one of the things we want to do is to introduce as many new people into WCS as we possibly can. Although many MJ'ers didnt settle into the night last night we had 3 different people and 1 couple ask about where they can learn this WCS thing

    One of the biggest barriers to getting people involved in WCS is that they are not aware of what it is! They have heard about it but dont really have an idea about the music and the dance in general. Obviously, for these few people, seeing it and experiencing the atmosphere were enough to at least get them to inquire about it.

    We dont just want to run it to give current Westies a place to dance. We want to bring in new people.

    --------
    Edit (afterthought)

    Right, from now on we will play "Dance the Night Away" by the Mavericks once every hour. Will that do?

    Last edited by Paul F; 3rd-September-2007 at 11:33 AM.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    Where is the messin around bit??? it`s just a name for the night, no more than that
    What'd be wrong with something that, you know, gave information? "Sunday Swing", "West Sundays", something like that?

    Blimey, and I thought Monday Lush was a silly name...

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    The first line in the description of the night on the Venue flyer states quite clearly, all music will be suitable for WCS, not much pretence there then.............
    OK, the entire music description is as follows:
    All the music will all be suitable for WCS. This is essentially a relaxed evening of R&B, Cool Country, Sassy Club Beats, Blues, Nu Soul, Lazy Latin and other chilled out tunes. The music will also be suitable for blues and the majority of tracks will be suitable for your more serene Ceroc.

    This freestyle is open to all and is meant as a relaxed evening of smooth sounds for all dancers to enjoy. Come along and enjoy the ‘Sunday Lounge’ atmosphere and practise your WCS, blues and slow Ceroc.
    It really doesn't clearly state that this is a WCS night to me. And I think it should.

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    Take a hit??? i assume ceroc want to have a sunday night that doesn`t exclude anyone if at all possible,
    Which is fine for MJ-ers, but a bit silly if you're trying to appeal to WCS-ers. By definition, you're excluding people (i.e. the ones who can't do WCS).

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    were you there last night DJ??
    Nah, there was some good telly on last night, plus I can't do WCS which could present a problem

  18. #78
    Registered User Almost an Angel's Avatar
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    Thats a really good point.

    MJ can, in essence, be danced to any music but I was guilty last night of playing some real dirty blues. As a lot of the music utilises what we call 'swung eights' it makes interpretation from a single-step timing point of view (ceroc) pretty damn difficult.
    I'm pretty sure we had fun dancing to the really dirty blues and I seem to recall several die-hard ceroc'ers going for it even during those songs. Yes they thined out towards the end but there were quite a few of them there in addition to the WCS people.

    The music personally I thought was great - Yes it probably could have had a few more as Paul said 'crossover tracks' and a few slower tracks that were suitable for Blues to help the cerocers out however it was billed primarily as a WCS night with music suitable for Blues and serene Ceroc etc etc.

    Roll on next week.

    Angel xx

  19. #79
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    Personally, I had a great time at the new freestyle event, even though I think the name is truely rediculous!

    There was a nice crowd of people there to dance with, the atmosphere was relaxed and the music was good - and I'm glad that there weren't more cross-over tracks between Ceroc and WCS because it encouraged me to practice my WCS and not be so tempted to give in to Ceroc . Having said that, the relaxed atmosphere meant that I didn't feel uneasy about Cerocing - at some WCS events I've been too I've felt it would be frowned upon to MJ/Ceroc there, but not at this one. The floor was good (only a bit sticky right at the edges).

    I have to agree with these points made by David James though:
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    • Stop messing around with all this "smoove" stuff, as it's ambiguous and confusing.
    • Stop trying to pretend it's all things to all people, and clearly state that this is primarily a WCS night.
    • Bite the bullet, have a clear view of the market, and accept that the numbers will take a hit initially, but work to maintain / improve them.
    I know there's a worry that the numbers might not stay so high as they were last night, but I think as more and more people become interested in WCS it could prove to be a very popular night indeed. I did think that it might fare better as a monthly freestyle, but know that the point of it is to have some freestyle time after Paul's class.

    I'd happily go back to this event again.

  20. #80
    Registered User FoxyFunkster's Avatar
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    Re: Sunday Smoove

    I know there's a worry that the numbers might not stay so high as they were last night, but I think as more and more people become interested in WCS it could prove to be a very popular night indeed. I did think that it might fare better as a monthly freestyle, but know that the point of it is to have some freestyle time after Paul's class.

    I'd happily go back to this event again.
    I hope it will be a popular night for sure, the concern that ceroc have is excluding anyone in particular, is it not possible to have a night that can satisfy people who wanna WCS all night as well as encouraging people who may wanna chilled out night of music on a sunday, one last point what did people think of the times, 8.30pm to 11pm??? was it too late???

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