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Thread: Why is any particular lead technique important?

  1. #41
    Registered User spindr's Avatar
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    Re: Why is any particular lead technique important?

    Different dance styles have different "local" customs, which interact somewhat with the lead/follow connection:
    • WCS dancers tend to "prep" moves horizontally.
    • Salsa dancers tend to "prep" moves vertically.
    • MJ dancers tend to use implicit "prep" (or none at all)
    • Argentine tango dancers tend to dance heart to heart.
    • Ballroom dancers tend to dance offset.


    Cheers,
    SpinDr

  2. #42
    Registered User timbp's Avatar
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    Re: Why is any particular lead technique important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    (BTW Tango leads can come from the hands; where the lead wants to isolate themselves from the follower eg otchos.)
    That's not what I'm being taught by my tango teachers. They expect me to lead ochos from my chest/centre, and not use my hands (except as a continuation of my frame). (Part of the impetus to my starting this thread.)
    To me, leading is leading is leading - the technique used to actually lead dosn't really vary with the dance, only the timeing of when to lead and the intent of movement that the lead is trying to convey to the follow. Beyond this, it's just style and adds nothing other than specific asthetics to the dance.
    That has been my view, and is the main impetus for my starting this thread.

  3. #43
    Registered User timbp's Avatar
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    Re: Why is any particular lead technique important?

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr View Post
    [*]WCS dancers tend to "prep" moves horizontally.
    Makes sense to me. Even outside dance, if I want to spin something one way, I prep in the opposite direction first.
    [*]Salsa dancers tend to "prep" moves vertically.
    I cannot see a physical explanation for these "preps". Even when I was doing salsa, I thought of them as signals rather than leads. (What? You mean ceroc is not the only dance to use signals?)
    [*]MJ dancers tend to use implicit "prep" (or none at all)
    "Preps" for spins have been taught in Sydney for as long as I have been dancing. Maybe not using that term, but certainly the concept was taught. (and they were horizontal preps)

  4. #44
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    Re: Why is any particular lead technique important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    Just to make sure I'm clear:
    When discussing a "Body lead", we talking about transfering the lead's intention to the follower by the lead moving their core/center/chest.

    This lead could move a connected follower visually rather than with any physical contact.

    A "hand lead" is conveying your intention to the follower soley through the physical contact and pressure applied through the connection points.

    This lead could move a connected follower tactally rather than with any form of visual connection.
    Mmmm - no. See Franck's explanation above.
    A body lead is one where the movement, and hence the lead, is generated from one's core, yes - but it's communicated through the arm(s)
    An arm lead is where the movement originates solely in the arm itself - so the rest of your body doesn't necessarily engage.

    Example: if you're walking a shopping trolley around - you don't shove it just with the arms. You start walking, and use your body's weight / momentum to push the trolley. And so with body leads.

    I think you're talking about non-contact connection, which is an entirely different beast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    If there is physical contact when leading a "body lead", then the boundary between "hand lead" and "body lead" becomes blurred. When both are applied together and work in conjunction with each other, then you have a very good lead that followers queue to dance with.
    The boundary between arm and body lead can certainly become blurred, but my own feeling is that it's more desireable to eliminate the arm lead altogether.

  5. #45
    Registered User Whitebeard's Avatar
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    Re: Why is any particular lead technique important?

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264 View Post

    (Snipity do da, snipity dey ....}

    Example: if you're walking a shopping trolley around - you don't shove it just with the arms. You start walking, and use your body's weight / momentum to push the trolley. And so with body leads.
    And when you want to turn left into the next aisle you shove the trolley forward, pull back with the left arm to turn it 90deg a/c, likewise pivot a/c on your left foot, and give a merry little back-kick with your right leg/foot. At least I do. Well, supermarket shopping is such a drudge isn't it ?

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    Re: Why is any particular lead technique important?

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264 View Post
    A body lead is one where the movement, and hence the lead, is generated from one's core, yes - but it's communicated through the arm(s)
    An arm lead is where the movement originates solely in the arm itself - so the rest of your body doesn't necessarily engage.
    Preciseley why I stated "with a connected partner" - I can lead from the body without a physical connection if I have a follower who is 'in tune' with me. I can lead a blindfold partner if they are 'in tune' with me. (admittedly the latter is easier)
    The communication method "through the arms" is another way of maintaining an equal seperation between you and your partner; it's not necessary if your follower can maintain this and follow the visual body leads.

    Example: if you're walking a shopping trolley around - you don't shove it just with the arms. You start walking, and use your body's weight / momentum to push the trolley. And so with body leads.
    A much banded about example that dosn't really work because you are working with a non-reactive entity. Especially dosn't work because once the trolly has momentum, you use hand leads to shove it round, not body leads. (How do you turn a corner with a trolly? Hand or body lead?)

    I think you're talking about non-contact connection, which is an entirely different beast.
    No, I don't think it is - what you are talking about is using a frame to conovey a body lead - the frame and the lead are entirely different beasts

    The boundary between arm and body lead can certainly become blurred, but my own feeling is that it's more desireable to eliminate the arm lead altogether.
    I feel that the ultimate lead is to have both the arm and body leads working in unison. That's a lot harder than it sounds.

  7. #47
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    Re: Why is any particular lead technique important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    Preciseley why I stated "with a connected partner" - I can lead from the body without a physical connection if I have a follower who is 'in tune' with me. I can lead a blindfold partner if they are 'in tune' with me. (admittedly the latter is easier)
    The communication method "through the arms" is another way of maintaining an equal seperation between you and your partner; it's not necessary if your follower can maintain this and follow the visual body leads.
    Have another read of Franck's posts - he explains it better than I did. To make it clear though - a body lead in the sense we've been discussing it here is not in any way a visual lead. Visual connection is something else entirely.

  8. #48
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    Re: Why is any particular lead technique important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    A much banded about example that dosn't really work because you are working with a non-reactive entity. Especially dosn't work because once the trolly has momentum, you use hand leads to shove it round, not body leads. (How do you turn a corner with a trolly? Hand or body lead?)
    Actually - I do use a body lead for that - but I'd agree most people don't. I simply maintain one handhold on the trolley, and smoothly change direction. The trolley will swing round to follow, and I can use its momentum to spin it round to be in front of me again - this means I don't put strain on my back struggling to turn it round. I don't do Whitebeard-type styling with that though - I get enough funny looks as it is....

    If space is tight, I simply stop, walk it round to face the new direction, then go. Same reason.

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    Re: Why is any particular lead technique important?

    You must get much better behaved trollys than me Doing that will either result in the trolly turning 90ยบ and having to avoid it (or having it career into the shelves) or it heading off in one direction while I'm going in the other

    Perhaps we(I) need advanced trolly leading technique workshops?

  10. #50
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    Re: Why is any particular lead technique important?

    {Out of time to Edit:}
    BTW by "visual following" I am not referring to any hand waving that the follower translates into the equivelent physical lead - I'm talking about leading from the torso that could be done with hands behind the back

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