Do only Ceroc Dancers win Ceroc champs?

[Franck]

Only been going a few years though Havn't they?

Can't remember when they started exactly but I was there in 2000, so quite a few years...

[Lee Bartholomew]

Can't remember when they started exactly but I was there in 2000, so quite a few years...

Ah on the winners cups they have got IX which (if I remember correct) is 4th?

Did they have a re-branding or something?

[Tessalicious]

AFAIK Andy has never done the ceroc champs.

I guess that was before your time

Only been going a few years though Havn't they?

One of these days, wf, you're going to stop thinking like a 17 year old. Just cos you weren't a witness doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Andy McG competed in the Ceroc X in 2006, so it makes it very difficult to take any notice of anything you say if you can't even be accurate about recent events (hard drugs anyone?).

And, FYI, the London Ceroc Champs have been running for 9 years.

EDIT:

IX which (if I remember correct) is 4th

You remember incorrect - it's 9th.

[Lee Bartholomew]

One of these days, wf, you're going to stop thinking like a 17 year old. Just cos you weren't a witness doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Andy McG competed in the Ceroc X in 2006, so it makes it very difficult to take any notice of anything you say if you can't even be accurate about recent events (hard drugs anyone?).

And, FYI, the London Ceroc Champs have been running for 9 years.

EDIT: You remember incorrect - it's 9th.

Well as far as I was aware he hadn't I stand corrected. And Amy winehouse had not done hard drugs upuntill (poss) recently. That is a fact belive me who knows her or have a guess and belive that that is the truth.

Been awhile since I done roman numerals at school, but you are right, I remeber now. got my V's and my x's mixed.

[Dreadful Scathe]

for the record Woodface has NEVER taken horse tranquilisers....or snorted coke out a of a celebrity chefs shoe....


..no really....thats how rumours start

[Minnie M]

AFAIK Andy has never done the ceroc champs.

Andy McGregor's Ceroc Champs entries

• The first Ceroc Comp - lucky dip plus Lucky dips in all other comps up to about 2years ago
• Olive Oil & Popepye with Nina Daines
• Trannie Sailers with Ben Borrego
• Double Trouble - Hookers with Debi (Almost an Angel) & RobC
• Old Gits - with Mr. Sheepman (came 4th)

There may be more, but can't remember

[Tiggerbabe]

Do you know all of the dancers in your regular venues? Do you know all the dancers when you visit venues miles away from where you live?

Bearing in mind that the teachers/judges and competitors in the champs travel to the comp from all over the world, why would the judges have any idea who everyone is and where they dance?

[Andy McGregor]

Andy McGregor's Ceroc Champs entries

• The first Ceroc Comp - lucky dip plus Lucky dips in all other comps up to about 2years ago
• Olive Oil & Popepye with Nina Daines
• Trannie Sailers with Ben Borrego
• Double Trouble - Hookers with Debi (Almost an Angel) & RobC
• Old Gits - with Mr. Sheepman (came 4th)

There may be more, but can't remember

I know, your memory fades

I also did the Old Gits with Mary

I still hold that a competition organised by Ceroc is exactly that. It is a Ceroc championships. Ceroc is not the dance. McDonalds championships anyone?

[drathzel]

Do you know all of the dancers in your regular venues? Do you know all the dancers when you visit venues miles away from where you live?

Bearing in mind that the teachers/judges and competitors in the champs travel to the comp from all over the world, why would the judges have any idea who everyone is and where they dance?

[Andy McGregor]

To get back on thread. I believe that any great dancer can win at a Ceroc Championships. I know many of the judges and know that they will pick the best dancers on the day. And I know that Mike Ellard will be honest too - the consequences of being caught being dishonest at a such a high profile event would be unthinkable for the Ceroc organisation.

However, I do believe that a dance competition which picks national champions should be independent of a national organisation that wants its teachers to be national champions. To use the McDonalds comparison, how credible would people find the title "UK Open Hamburger & Fries Cooking Champion" if the championship were held by McDonalds and the top trainer for McDonalds won the title? However, this doesn't mean I think that McDonalds shouldn't be hosting contests, it just means that we should take a pinch of salt with their fries.

[David Bailey]

To get back on thread. I believe that any great dancer can win at a Ceroc Championships. I know many of the judges and know that they will pick the best dancers on the day. And I know that Mike Ellard will be honest too - the consequences of being caught being dishonest at a such a high profile event would be unthinkable for the Ceroc organisation.

However, I do believe that a dance competition which picks national champions should be independent of a national organisation that wants its teachers to be national champions. To use the McDonalds comparison, how credible would people find the title "UK Open Hamburger & Fries Cooking Champion" if the championship were held by McDonalds and the top trainer for McDonalds won the title? However, this doesn't mean I think that McDonalds shouldn't be hosting contests, it just means that we should take a pinch of salt with their fries.

This is actually a reasonable point. It also brings up the wider issue that there isn't a credible global MJ dance organisation - which has been discussed many times before. So Ceroc fills in the gaps by default, but there are obvious problems with that - competitions are just one example of this - in that a commercial organisation has commercial imperatives, which may conflict with the needs of the wider MJ dancing community.

On the other hand, Competitions Are Evil.

[Rocky]

To get back on thread. I believe that any great dancer can win at a Ceroc Championships. I know many of the judges and know that they will pick the best dancers on the day. And I know that Mike Ellard will be honest too - the consequences of being caught being dishonest at a such a high profile event would be unthinkable for the Ceroc organisation..

This is true and yet on one hand you say that it IS open and honest and that ANY dancer can win and then you write another paragraph that completely contradicts what you've just said - make your mind up.

However, I do believe that a dance competition which picks national champions should be independent of a national organisation that wants its teachers to be national champions. To use the McDonalds comparison, how credible would people find the title "UK Open Hamburger & Fries Cooking Champion" if the championship were held by McDonalds and the top trainer for McDonalds won the title? However, this doesn't mean I think that McDonalds shouldn't be hosting contests, it just means that we should take a pinch of salt with their fries.

I thought there was an independent National Championships? Isn't that what C2D Blackpool is?? And at this competition the blue riband category the "UK Open Hamburger & Fries Cooking Champion" was won by a McDonalds top training team (Phil and Alex) and they were voted into first position by who? That's right, an independent group of judges.

I think you'll also find that if you go back over the history of the Ceroc Champs, Ceroc teachers as a group actually make up the smallest number of winners across all categories.

Kinda blows the 'conspiracy theories' out of the water don't you think? Maybe you've eaten too many hamburgers Andy and the BSE has finally caught up with you..

[David Bailey]

I think you'll also find that if you go back over the history of the Ceroc Champs, Ceroc teachers as a group actually make up the smallest number of winners across all categories.

Are there any stats for this?

I attempted to collate a table of winners of competitions a while back, but most comp sites don't have records going back very long - although to be fair the Ceroc Champs site records goes back to 2004, which is pretty good.

[Lee Bartholomew]

Are there any stats for this?

I attempted to collate a table of winners of competitions a while back, but most comp sites don't have records going back very long - although to be fair the Ceroc Champs site records goes back to 2004, which is pretty good.

Thats one of the things that made me think it hadn't been going to long. That and my crap knowledge of roman Numerals.

More to the point with all this, are comps really worth anything to the winners?

[robd]

More to the point with all this, are comps really worth anything to the winners?

Like cows, they're good for milking.

I thought you of all people would know that woodface.

[David Bailey]

More to the point with all this, are comps really worth anything to the winners?

The usual - fame, glory, girls - except for DT winners of course, they're looked down-upon forever more.

Seriously, it's good marketing for teachers - if they say "Winner of XYZ competition" it looks good on their resume, and gets them more work.

Of course, the rewards are pitiful compared to ballroom competitions, but then that's part of the MJ scene anyway.

[Lee Bartholomew]

The usual - fame, glory, girls - except for DT winners of course, they're looked down-upon forever more.

Seriously, it's good marketing for teachers - if they say "Winner of XYZ competition" it looks good on their resume, and gets them more work.

Of course, the rewards are pitiful compared to ballroom competitions, but then that's part of the MJ scene anyway.

Lol yeah, everyone got holidays, we got a peice of glass.

I guess so about the teachers but with so many comps now, there doesn't seem to be one overall 'master of MJ' kind of thing, unless blackppol is seen as the biggie.

[ducasi]

[...] there doesn't seem to be one overall 'master of MJ' kind of thing, unless blackppol is seen as the biggie.

There used to be a "Jive Masters" competition that was for the best of the best, but it hasn't run in recent years, I think due to the main organiser being on the other side of the world most of the time.

Would be nice to see this event come back.

[Andy McGregor]

Kinda blows the 'conspiracy theories' out of the water don't you think? Maybe you've eaten too many hamburgers Andy and the BSE has finally caught up with you..

I've not mentioned "conspiracy". Please stop putting words into my mouth I'm talking about credibility of competition - IMHO a competition run by a commercial organisation who have a vested interest is not going to have the credibility of an independent competition.

[Rocky]

I've not mentioned "conspiracy". Please stop putting words into my mouth I'm talking about credibility of competition - IMHO a competition run by a commercial organisation who have a vested interest is not going to have the credibility of an independent competition.

I don't have to put words into your mouth, you've put them there already..

To use the McDonalds comparison, how credible would people find the title "UK Open Hamburger & Fries Cooking Champion" if the championship were held by McDonalds and the top trainer for McDonalds won the title?

What's that if it's not a suggestion that the event organisers are conspiring with the judges to create a required outcome then?

What we've seen is that the independent' competitions produce broadly the same results anyway, so they are all as credible as each other.