View Poll Results: Is MJ a sport?

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  • Yes

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  • No

    11 84.62%
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Thread: Is MJ a sport?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    That would also include sex, climbing stairs, running for the bus etc.

    And by implication exclude archery, shooting, etc.
    i stand corrected! i think if i see it as a sport / exercise then i can convince myself that i am doing something healthy with my life

  2. #22
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    By TA's definition, darts is a sport.
    Yes - as it's measurable, obviously. So is snooker, by that measure, or motor racing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    However, he is, uncharacteristically, wrong in this case. What TA is calling a sport is competition. There are many activities that are sports where there is no competitive element for most of the participants.
    "Most"? Where'd that slip in?

    To me, the key reason why MJ is not a sport is because there are no rules. That's it, basically. Every sport has rules when engaged in competitively, and MJ does not.

    What makes ballroom dancing, ice skating, synchronised swimming and other "performance" sports into sports is the presence of consistent criteria and benchmarks. For example, you can't do aerials when doing a waltz.

    MJ has no such consistent criteria. Therefore MJ is not a sport. QED.

  3. #23
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    MJ has no such consistent criteria. Therefore MJ is not a sport. QED.
    Of course there are MJ competitions with consistent criteria. Therefore, even by DJ's warped criteria, MJ is a sport QEDx2 :nosethumbingsmiley:

  4. #24
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caz View Post
    I'd define sport as exercise, hence MJ is exercise, hence a sport

    Nope, it's not - cause MikeyR says it's not (and he clearly knows what exercise is!)

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
    Exercise is the key here, if you feel that dancing is exercise then honestly you are not doing enough REAL exercise

    *snip*

    With proper regular exercise (NO NOT DANCING!! ) and a balanced diet and the problem is solved.

    And no, contrary to popular belief I dont spend all day in the gym, I have a proper job where I sit on my ar$e all day and read this forum

  5. #25
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    ... to be a sport I'd also add the 'measurement' should be absolute, and not subjective... scores most goals is a sport ...
    soccer is subjective. Was that offside? a foul? did the ball cross the line?
    "Walking" races are definitely subjective, as are any sport where there is any sort of judge or referee. If it can be up to a judge to decide what is "walking" then I cannot see why they cannot decide what is "good" dancing, except, of course, the camera regularly proves the judges to be wrong.
    Often the chief benefits of competition is to set the focus on the differences bewteen ideas about what the subject being judged is all about. It is can be about not which competitor won, but which idea is winning.

  6. #26
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Of course there are MJ competitions with consistent criteria.
    Just because there are a couple of comps using vaguely-similar rules, doesn't make them consistent across the board. For example, on a subject close to your heart, there's no consistent definition in MJ of which foot the follower steps back on in the First Move.

    You wouldn't expect "Heavyweight" to have different values in boxing competitions, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Therefore, even by DJ's warped criteria, MJ is a sport
    I'm just providing one reason - there are many others, but that one's pretty important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    QEDx2 :nosethumbingsmiley:
    Ahh
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #27
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    By TA's definition, darts is a sport.

    However, he is, uncharacteristically, wrong in this case. What TA is calling a sport is competition. There are many activities that are sports where there is no competitive element for most of the participants. The fact that you don't compete in a sport where some people do compete does not make what you do into a hobby. It might be your hobby, but it's still a sport.
    Darts, interesting one. Is it a sport..? I'd say 'Yes', in the same way that shooting or archery is a sport. Although I do remember arguments on the TV about whether darts was a sport years ago People had a problem equating fat bellies and beer guzzling with the word 'sport'. However, their is still some physical prowess required to be a top darts player. Unlike, say, Chess, which would bring us to the physical aspect. I just assumed we weren't going to go there

    It's possible for something to be both a sport and hobby. But to be a sport, I'd say there has to be some competitive element, yes. Even if that competitive element is only against yourself, that still counts as a sport in my mind. If the dingy guy (is that you ? ) potters around the lake trying to beat his lap of yesterday, or he's practising for some day when he will race, I'd say he was taking part in sport. If he potters around the lake getting a sun tan drinking a Coberushi, eating a hotdog, reading Playboy magazine and eyeing the girls in their bikinis on the artificial beach, I'd say it was a hobby, nothing to do with sport.

    Where I think we disagree is you seem to be saying it's possible to be a sport if there is no competitive element whatsoever. I do disagree with that. Sorry
    Likewise, a competitive element does not necessarily on it's own make something a sport.

  8. #28
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Even if that competitive element is only against yourself, that still counts as a sport in my mind.
    I disagree there. That would make yoga a sport the way I do it. Anything where you try to better whatever you did last time could be a sport - knitting or crochet to Olympic standards anyone?

  9. #29
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    If he potters around the lake getting a sun tan drinking a Coberushi, eating a hotdog, reading Playboy magazine and eyeing the girls in their bikinis on the artificial beach, I'd say it was a hobby, nothing to do with sport.
    Hell, that sounds good to me - where do I sign up?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Where I think we disagree is you seem to be saying it's possible to be a sport if there is no competitive element whatsoever. I do disagree with that. Sorry
    I agree with you.

    But there's a simple way to disprove this - simply name an activity which is clearly a sport, but which has no competitive element.

    So, any suggestions, Andy?

  10. #30
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    soccer is subjective. Was that offside? a foul? did the ball cross the line?
    "Walking" races are definitely subjective, as are any sport where there is any sort of judge or referee. If it can be up to a judge to decide what is "walking" then I cannot see why they cannot decide what is "good" dancing, except, of course, the camera regularly proves the judges to be wrong.
    That's true, but how ever much subjectivity there is about the rules, the result is not subjective. Most goals wins, first over the line wins.

  11. #31
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    I disagree there. That would make yoga a sport the way I do it. Anything where you try to better whatever you did last time could be a sport - knitting or crochet to Olympic standards anyone?
    Like I said, just because something has a competitive element does not make it a sport. (P.S. I worded it badly )
    But a competitive element is one requirement of being a sport. (IMO).

  12. #32
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Hell, that sounds good to me - where do I sign up?
    Damm, I was hoping someone could tell me.

  13. #33
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Yeah, OK, so I'm a copyeditor.
    Did anybody else bother to look at a dictionary?

    First 2 definitions on answers.com involve "governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively". I think ceroc/modern jive fits that, if we take "customs" rather than "rules" and aren't too pedantic about "often".

    Third definition is "An active pastime; recreation". That's what I do when I go dancing, so I guess ceroc, for me, is a sport (defn 3).

    AND FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT ACCEPT answers.com

    I just checked my Concise Oxford Dictionary, 9th edition.
    1 game or competitive activity, esp. an outdoor one involving physical exertion
    [2 not relevant]
    3 amusement, diversion, fun.

    So ceroc/modern jive is certainly sport (meaning 3 in both dictionaries quoted), and for those who like to compete, it is a sport in meaning 1 or 2.

  14. #34
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by timbp View Post
    Yeah, OK, so I'm a copyeditor.
    Did anybody else bother to look at a dictionary?
    I looked at Wikipedia, does that count? But then it didn't support my argument, so I ignored it

    But dictionaries provide descriptions, not definitions - they won't define the criteria by which an activity can be defined as a sport. In other words, they'll just say what a sport is, but not what it isn't.

    For example:
    Quote Originally Posted by timbp View Post
    First 2 definitions on answers.com involve "governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively". I think ceroc/modern jive fits that, if we take "customs" rather than "rules" and aren't too pedantic about "often".
    Yeah? Then answer this:
    • What foot do followers step back on in the first step of the First Move?
    • How should leaders lead the start of each move - with a semi-circle or not?

  15. #35
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by timbp View Post
    Yeah, OK, so I'm a copyeditor.
    Did anybody else bother to look at a dictionary?...
    I thought copyeditors scanned the text?

    I had already posted the link:-

    sport - Definitions from Dictionary.com

    MJ fits many definitions, even Obsolete - Amorous dalliance.

    Unfortunately Obsolete is too near the mark ...

  16. #36
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    I[*]What foot do followers step back on in the first step of the First Move?
    I don't know, I don't care. Followers can do what they want with their feet, as long as they let me do what I want with their body.
    [*]How should leaders lead the start of each move - with a semi-circle or not?
    I don't know. I don't lead moves. I dance, and lead my partner to dance, and respond to her dancing, and feed back my response to her through the connection we have formed.

  17. #37
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Obsolete - Amorous dalliance.
    So that's why I miss out -- I'm too modern!

  18. #38
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    It's possible for something to be both a sport and hobby. But to be a sport, I'd say there has to be some competitive element, yes. Even if that competitive element is only against yourself, that still counts as a sport in my mind. If the dingy guy (is that you ? ) potters around the lake trying to beat his lap of yesterday, or he's practising for some day when he will race, I'd say he was taking part in sport. If he potters around the lake getting a sun tan drinking a Coberushi, eating a hotdog, reading Playboy magazine and eyeing the girls in their bikinis on the artificial beach, I'd say it was a hobby, nothing to do with sport.
    You can compete at MJ, there are competitions so those who compete are enjoying a sport by anybody's definition. And you can compete with yourself. You could go for endurance events. Stay up later at that weekender, for instance. Or you could go for a move you've never succeeded in doing.

    Saying that doing a sport and not competing at it makes it a hobby rather than a sport is patently rubbish. Consider the sailing thing, you are bobbing about on the lake watching the ladies/hunks on the beach. Then one day you decide to impress the beach dwellers by entering a regatta - do you suddenly change what you do. Of course you don't, all you do is measure how well you do it against other sailors. How can it be a sport one day and a hobby the next?

  19. #39
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    I looked at Wikipedia, does that count? But then it didn't support my argument, so I ignored it


    That might sound ridiculous, but IMHO the "definition" of sport has become overloaded by groups that want to be considered a sport for various vested interests. The result is that the dictionary definitions don't remotely tally with how people use the word in the real world.

    As evidence, the poll results show a fairly strong consensus that MJ is not a sport, whatever the dictionary definition might say.

  20. #40
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    Re: Is MJ a sport?

    Quote Originally Posted by timbp View Post
    I don't know, I don't care. Followers can do what they want with their feet, as long as they let me do what I want with their body.

    I don't know. I don't lead moves. I dance, and lead my partner to dance, and respond to her dancing, and feed back my response to her through the connection we have formed.
    I agree with both of these sentiments - but what this actually says is that there are no consistent rules, therefore it's not a sport...

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