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Thread: Promoting Ceroc

  1. #21
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    Seems to me like West Coast is the best way of getting people into West Coast.
    That is now, this was then. Trees do not flourish in deserts.

  2. #22
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    Seems to me like West Coast is the best way of getting people into West Coast.
    why ? hasnt worked in the past

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    What I would hope for is to be able to ask a random sample of people what Ceroc is and have over 25% of them answer that it is some sort of dance or something to do with dance. I want dancers to hear or see Ceroc and pay attention, because there may be something happening that is of interest to them. One of our latest members, a long time ballroom dancer, only first heard of Ceroc a few weeks ago.
    I work for the largest Insurance company in the world and I bet less then 1 in 20 uk people have ever heard of them. They spend more on advertising in a minute then ceroc does in a year .

    so how ceroc do that i dont know

    ceroc has a problem in that it has a aging cliental partly due to its own success

    it will be interesting to see how the Jive nations of the world develop

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    Registered User happygoldfish's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    Seems to me like West Coast is the best way of getting people into West Coast.
    That is now, this was then. Trees do not flourish in deserts.
    West is East. South is North. Fish do not dance in trees.

    Synchronised Underwater Ceroc!

  4. #24
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    That is now, this was then. Trees do not flourish in deserts.
    This is getting very philosophical

    But - assuming you're saying that MJ is the best gateway to WCS - I'm not sure I agree. If a dance can't stand on its own two feet, if it has to rely mainly on the customers from another dance, then it'll never be a truly independent dance. And at some point, this dependency will I think actually hamper the development of the dance.

    I don't think WCS is growing because of MJ or Ceroc, I think it's growing because some heroic WCS teachers have been spending mostly-thankless time and effort working to develop the WCS scene over the past 5-10 years.

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by happygoldfish View Post
    Synchronised Underwater Ceroc!
    Have done that! Beo and I tried a few moves when we went swimming Not quite synchronised though... More like slow motion

  6. #26
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    I don't think WCS is growing because of MJ or Ceroc, I think it's growing because some heroic WCS teachers have been spending mostly-thankless time and effort working to develop the WCS scene over the past 5-10 years.
    Well it is growing because of MJ and Ceroc have a look at their web sites

    The question is would it anyway and by how much has MJ ceroc added to its growth ?

    1200 people see WCS at a Jive weekend and 300 are 'interested' who tell 300 others

    Maybe its just ‘WCS time’

    Re promoting ceroc do you want to see ceroc as a ‘jive dance’ or a brand. Interesting how do you promote ‘ceroc’ now

    I think ceroc will try and develop as a ‘brand’ and why not have different dance styles under that brand

    Ceroc Tango , Ceroc cha cha , it will all come . they offer Taxi dancers and a ‘ceroc flavour’ etc etc

    One reason I didn’t keep going to Salsa as the venues were rude and indifferent to beginners so why not have ceroc Salsa ?

  7. #27
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    This is getting very philosophical

    But - assuming you're saying that MJ is the best gateway to WCS - I'm not sure I agree. If a dance can't stand on its own two feet, if it has to rely mainly on the customers from another dance, then it'll never be a truly independent dance. And at some point, this dependency will I think actually hamper the development of the dance.

    I don't think WCS is growing because of MJ or Ceroc, I think it's growing because some heroic WCS teachers have been spending mostly-thankless time and effort working to develop the WCS scene over the past 5-10 years.
    Surely though, lots of people start dancing with Ceroc, but then move onto other dance forms? Without having done MJ in the first place, they'd never have gone onto WCS or AT or whatever. Something similar could possibly said for salsa I imagine. They get people hooked, then when people go off and try other things.

  8. #28
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Well it is growing because of MJ and Ceroc have a look at their web sites
    Mmmm.... not sure about that, it's a chicken-and-egg thing. Is the scene growing because Ceroc are running WCS classes, or are Ceroc running WCS classes because it's a growing scene?

    Don't get me wrong - I agree that there's a large crossover - but I think it's more a "jump-on-the-WCS-bandwagon" thing than a "Ooh, let's promote this new-and-unknown dance form" thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    One reason I didn’t keep going to Salsa as the venues were rude and indifferent to beginners so why not have ceroc Salsa ?
    Because, err, they're two totally different dances? And, from bitter experience, I know that many Ceroc franchisees just don't give a monkey's about expanding dancer repertoire. Believe me, I've tried...

    Although I'd love to see some of the standardisations which Ceroc do well be applied to other dance forms, I'm doubtful whether it'll happen.

  9. #29
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Surely though, lots of people start dancing with Ceroc, but then move onto other dance forms?
    Yes - but if that's the only way those other dance forms get "recruits", then they'd always be dependent on (for example) Ceroc for their livelihoods.

    And of course, that'd lay them open to charges of parasitism...

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Without having done MJ in the first place, they'd never have gone onto WCS or AT or whatever.
    There's not a large overlap between AT and MJ, or for that matter between AT and salsa - very few people (relatively) regularly do both. (In fact, I'm the only one I know of who regularly does salsa, MJ and AT social dancing. Unique, that's me )

    I can't speak for WCS, but the AT scene in the UK has been slowly growing quite nicely over the past few years, without any assistance from MJ sources.

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    Lightbulb Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Have done that! Beo and I tried a few moves when we went swimming Not quite synchronised though... More like slow motion
    Did you and Beo ( to my liege lord and lady ) do West Coast, East Coast, or South Coast?

    Or Rocpool?

    Hmm … tempo is a problem. I suggest … ondulante.

    Ah … this holiday season, perhaps Ceroc busks should be nearer the sea, or preferably …

    in it!

    Ondulare, v. … to rock, to wave.
    Go with the flow!

  11. #31
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Yes - but if that's the only way those other dance forms get "recruits", then they'd always be dependent on (for example) Ceroc for their livelihoods.

    *snip*
    My point was that Ceroc gets people dancing, and increases the likelihood that they will try another dance style. I wasn't suggesting, and I'm not sure that anyone else was either, that Ceroc is direct conduit into other dance styles, and that they are relying on them for new dancers. It's more organic than that.

    As for people doing more than one style at once - maybe some start out in Ceroc but then drift away to other styles? I'm still pondering doing WCS/AT - but I wouldn't have the time or money to do as much Ceroc as I do now. Something would have to be dropped.

  12. #32
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Mmmm.... not sure about that, it's a chicken-and-egg thing. Is the scene growing because Ceroc are running WCS classes, or are Ceroc running WCS classes because it's a growing scene?

    Don't get me wrong - I agree that there's a large crossover - but I think it's more a "jump-on-the-WCS-bandwagon" thing than a "Ooh, let's promote this new-and-unknown dance form" thing.


    Because, err, they're two totally different dances? And, from bitter experience, I know that many Ceroc franchisees just don't give a monkey's about expanding dancer repertoire. Believe me, I've tried...

    Although I'd love to see some of the standardisations which Ceroc do well be applied to other dance forms, I'm doubtful whether it'll happen.
    Did say it maybe the reason , not going down the chicken and egg route

    Mark this spot 2009 you will have ceroc Tango Ceroc WCS etc

    ceroc will ask a small Tango class (17 punters) going for 14 yrs with 3 women left over and give them a business proposition

    One thing ceroc offers , it tends to support begineers . ive done Salsa from Hemel to london and its the same 'Thanks now P**** O*** see you next week.

  13. #33
    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Don't get me wrong - I agree that there's a large crossover - but I think it's more a "jump-on-the-WCS-bandwagon" thing than a "Ooh, let's promote this new-and-unknown dance form" thing.

    Ah well. I might as well respond as Im teaching it for Ceroc

    The reason I wanted to do this is because I was dissapointed when so many people from London and surrounds asked me, at weekenders, where in London they could go do WCS - and I couldnt give them a good answer.
    The first thing I would say is Twickenham but that was it. There were no other outlets for people. Some people either couldnt get to Twickenham or just didnt want to make the effort so when I was asked if I would be interested in teaching I thought yes, why not. I asked many people their opinion and no-one could give me a sound reason why it wouldnt be a benefit to WCS.

    There are so many MJ'ers in London and surrounds that dont have a clue what WCS is. If my involvement meant we could 'use' Cerocs mailing list to get people interested then brilliant.

    Thats it really. Im doing this to spread the word. We are certainly not in it for the money. The fact that we are restricting numbers and hiring a very expensive venue means I get to pay for my parking, fuel and dinner-on-the-go and thats about it.

    Eventually, Im sure Cat and Co will open up other venues and spread out (i believe one is opening in North West London soon). When I get the feeling that there is comprehensive coverage for people to learn I will stop teaching. At the end of the day, at some point I need to get back to concentrating on competition work and my ballroom+latin too.
    In the meantime there are many people that are not getting involved or just dont know. I need to try and get these people involved.

    Bottom line - I am doing this purely for the love of WCS and a desire to see it grow. I dont want to take over the world - just get people involved.

  14. #34
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    I work for the largest Insurance company in the world and I bet less then 1 in 20 uk people have ever heard of them.
    I have, they sponsored Michael Schumacher didn't they?

    Maybe Ceroc™ should sponsor Lewis Hamilton

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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by strobie View Post
    Maybe Ceroc™ should sponsor Lewis Hamilton
    Actually - that's a brilliant idea to reach a more male audience, to get more men into dancing. They should sponsor the England cricket team too - after all, Mark Ramprakash & Darren Gough did brilliantly on SCD.

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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by happygoldfish View Post
    Synchronised Underwater Ceroc!
    You've not seen ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    As for people doing more than one style at once - maybe some start out in Ceroc but then drift away to other styles?
    And vica versa, of course.

  17. #37
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    You've not seen ?


    Maybe that's the future for aerials - or would they be called aquerials?

  18. #38
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    This is getting very philosophical

    But - assuming you're saying that MJ is the best gateway to WCS - I'm not sure I agree. If a dance can't stand on its own two feet, if it has to rely mainly on the customers from another dance, then it'll never be a truly independent dance. And at some point, this dependency will I think actually hamper the development of the dance.

    I don't think WCS is growing because of MJ or Ceroc, I think it's growing because some heroic WCS teachers have been spending mostly-thankless time and effort working to develop the WCS scene over the past 5-10 years.
    Fred & Becky in Acton were among the foremost (I know of no others) developing WCS in London. Their venue was heavily populated by Ceroc Dancers when I went, and I do not think it would have been viable without them.

    Doing what you love, and seeing others grow to love it too is far from thankless.

    It is always best to be taught the right way from the start. Bad habits are really difficult to overcome. In the real world people look at MJ and say "I couldn't do that.", and then go on to discover that they cannot stop "doing that". If I look at advanced swing dancers, or even advanced MJ ('The Donut'} I am surprised that anyone in the world can "do that", let alone imagine that I could. For many the wrong road is the only one that they will take.

    Philosophy has its place, as does evolution. The grass grows, and prepares the soil for shrubs, and then for trees. The swing dances grew like that, out of people hoofing around in dance halls.

  19. #39
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post

    Bottom line - I am doing this purely for the love of WCS and a desire to see it grow. I dont want to take over the world - just get people involved.
    you didnt mention your web site

    you do it for love ill collect the money ??

  20. #40
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    Re: Promoting Ceroc

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    you didnt mention your web site

    you do it for love ill collect the money ??
    I dont know why but i tend not to mention things that I am doing on here. Im just a bit uncomfortable with advertising myself on the forum.
    Im sure someone will find times when I have done some 'self-advertising' though

    I certainly dont push my website on here. Most of the people that have come through my website have been told about it by others or have atteneded an event that they follow up on. Thats the way I like it really.

    I dont even have any meta tags on my site which is why it doesnt list in google!!!

    Maybe im just stupid and am missing an opportunity

    I think, in reality, its a time thing. I really really love teaching but I have been down the road where it takes over your life.
    I also love doing other things with my life and have a full time job as well so im not interested in going crazy
    Last edited by Paul F; 7th-August-2007 at 02:35 PM.

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