West Coast Jive

[ducasi]

... people want to be able to dance like J&T without learning foot patterns.

When you get to the level of J&T, are you using the foot patterns as taught anyway?

[Lory]

When you get to the level of J&T, are you using the foot patterns as taught anyway?

Absolutely not but they themselves will tell you how important it is to learn and be able to do, the basic foot patterns with good technique first.... BEFORE you try to syncopate and get clever!

Its like the old saying, don't try to run before you can walk!

[frodo]

I guess this was inevitable but Im surprised at how quickly it has come about.

Is there any more detail on this i.e. who is teaching it, exactly what bits of WCS are they merging with Jive and so on?

I think various people have been doing this sort of thing. Being explicit about a slot and adding more technique and a particular foot at times.

Possibly because it tends to be the better teachers doing it, it usually results in decent moves being well taught. I don't think the moves are always WCS derived though.

[robd]

Since both Simon and Nicole are on the forum let's hope they can give some clarification of what these classes involve - more useful than idle speculation at any rate.

[Simon r]

Simon and Nicole. Here's their site:
Simon & Nichole



From a description on uk-jive of Coasters: "WCS influenced moves and styling without the complicated footwork."
Or from the West Coast Jive flyer: "the style and flair of West Coast Swing with the freedom of Modern Jive".

Hi there just seen this as martin has already placed the description on here,

yep this is what we are up to i think the flyer produced by london does actually still say coasters as well.

We are teaching jive, using west coast influences and styles and dance structures .

We feel this not only improves modern jive but will also help to promote west coast as a dance that we also both love.

This will be a series of workshops set at intermediate to advanced level with a lot of homework based modules for continued improvement.

[MartinHarper]

In what way do you feel that West Coast lacks freedom, compared to Modern Jive. Alternatively, what elements have you avoided taking from West Coast in order to preserve the freedom of Modern Jive in your workshops?

[clevedonboy]

In what way do you feel that West Coast lacks freedom, compared to Modern Jive.

A really good point

Many dances can be as free as MJ - watch Darren & Lilya dance a cha cha cha for instance

[Simon r]

In what way do you feel that West Coast lacks freedom, compared to Modern Jive. Alternatively, what elements have you avoided taking from West Coast in order to preserve the freedom of Modern Jive in your workshops?

The freedom is given by allowing the flow to continue without the anchor steps, also by allowing freedom of movement along the slots without confining footwork. Sometimes I do feel that some ( not those who are actually well known for teaching west coast ) people are making west coast to be a magical art that can only be achieved by prolonged intensive training and for some can never be attained.

We are just trying to bring the fun back into the dance but still improve the general technique and understanding.

[Dreadful Scathe]

The freedom is given by alowing the flow to contiue without the anchor steps also sometimes i do feel that some people are making west coast to be a magical art that can only be achieved by severe training.

but surely by removing the anchor step to make it easier, you are not helping dispute that "magical art" myth ?

[Simon r]

but surely by removing the anchor step to make it easier, you are not helping dispute that "magical art" myth ?

I'm sorry not going to get involved in arguments on the ceroc forum any more, i was asked to make a short statement which i have done.

I will leave you guys to what normally occurs on the forum,

Just for clarification we both really enjoy WCS, nicole is able to dance both at the same time, i can only do one or the other. This was something we have been working on for a couple of years and really enjoy teaching and i guess represents our style of dancing.

If you want to learn true west coast swing then please see Cat, Paul W, or lee

Thanks Simon

[stewart38]

I'm sorry not going to get involved in arguments on the ceroc forum any more, i was asked to make a short statement which i have done.

I will leave you guys to what normally occurs on the forum,

Just for clarification we both really enjoy WCS, nicole is able to dance both at the same time, i can only do one or the other. This was something we have been working on for a couple of years and really enjoy teaching and i guess represents our style of dancing.

If you want to learn true west coast swing then please see Cat, Paul W, or lee

Thanks Simon

Well said

Asked what its about and its been answered

May explain why in my humble opinon you two have improved so much in the last few years

[Rhythm King]

Amir taught a "West Coast inspired" slotted jive class at Rock Bottoms a couple of years ago. At the end of the class as people went through the routine, he said "Now all you have to do is stamp your feet three times and people will think you're doing West Coast Swing"

fortunately for him, Cat wasn't there...

[Dreadful Scathe]

I'm sorry not going to get involved in arguments on the ceroc forum any more, i was asked to make a short statement which i have done.

I never look for an argument, some people just choose to start them

My point was that by introducing only some of the elements of WCS into jive, rather than teaching people WCS to help with their jive - it makes people think that WCS is some magical difficult to learn dance. So its not surprising that this concept that WCS "can only be achieved by severe training" exists.

Which is not to say your class isn't great and what people want - because it is - i was just surprised you came up with that line.

[stewart38]

I never look for an argument, some people just choose to start them

My point was that by introducing only some of the elements of WCS into jive, rather than teaching people WCS to help with their jive - it makes people think that WCS is some magical difficult to learn dance. So its not surprising that this concept that WCS "can only be achieved by severe training" exists.

Which is not to say your class isn't great and what people want - because it is - i was just surprised you came up with that line.

No Rocky today ?

[Dreadful Scathe]

No Rocky today ?

He's in a Thai prison I believe

[Geordieed]

:And of course because West Coast seems to be a bit of a buzz word at the mo and people want to be able to dance like J&T without learning foot patterns.

I think alot of people would dearly love to dance like J&T, footwork or no footwork and that would include alot of Swing dancers in America. You can also see that by the amount of MJ routines that have been ripping off large chunks of J&T's routines for the past 2-3 years anyway. The irony is that taking away their own personal attributes alot of what they do requires a great deal of technical skill. It is not a case of seeing it and copying it. I think this would be the same when it comes to teaching. I think it would take a great deal of understanding (alot more than is actually presented) if you were going to teach the techniques used in WCS. The more people are exposed to WCS and get enthused about the dance the better.


Workshops like this run through Ceroc could help to build up WCS in this country whether it be through their own teaching (well done PaulF) or through other teachers...

[robd]

I participated in the coasters class at Chill and enjoyed it a lot. It would be a useful development for many Modern Jivers moving to WCS as well as within its own right for enhancing your MJ. In my limited experience of WCS the dance simply doesn't work without good, basic frame and, unlike MJ to an extent, it cannot be fudged. SnN worked on these aspects during the class I attended. The footwork is an important component of WCS, no doubt, but not the only important one. Clear, decisive lead (& follow) is very important too and Coasters can only help in this regard. IIRC there was also structured footwork (albeit not triples) in the class I did but then I believe this is true in SnN's regular classes also.

FWIW I think the name Coasters is much better than West Coast Jive - the latter does smack of bandwaggon hopping (by the promoters not by SnN)