View Poll Results: How do I feel about smoking & dancing?

Voters
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  • I love smoky dance floors

    4 2.21%
  • I don't mind smoky dance floors

    12 6.63%
  • I put up with smoky dance floors

    6 3.31%
  • I don't like smoky dance floors

    21 11.60%
  • I hate smoky dance floors

    104 57.46%
  • I'm making a stand and won't go anywhere near a smoky dance floor

    34 18.78%
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Thread: Smoking and Dancing don't mix

  1. #141
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Smoking

    Originally posted by Graham
    if I really didn't want to be involved in a traffic accident I would avoid roads.
    and if you didn't want to dance with someone who forgot their pants, you wouldn't do a competition with them?

    Oh no sorry, I should be trying to agree with you here; sorry G. :sorry

  2. #142
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Smoking

    Originally posted by azande
    I've always been of the opinion that if there is something you hate enough you just avoid it. If dancing is more important than a smoky place, well.. you go to those venues knowing what to expect.
    Once again you are right. My intention in starting this thread has been to get people to ban smoking from halls where the dancing takes place. My motivation is related to health. If you breathe cigarette smoke there is a chance that it will cause you to have an illness which might even shorten your life. At the very least it will cause you some short term discomfort.

    The proportion of people who 'hate smoky dance floors' or are 'making a stand' is 71.4% and when you add in people who 'don't like' the percentage goes up to 82.5%. This is a massive vote against smoky dance floors.

    This thread has been viewed 2889 times to date and has 139 replies. That means it is of interest to a lot of people. What we need to do now is to get the consumer to vote with his/her feet. And to do that they need to move towards something called 'perfect knowledge'. That is when the consumer knows everything about every product to come to a rational decision. This objective is never achievable - but it is an objective that we can move towards.

    To take this from the debate stage we are currently in to the action stage we need to provide the consumer with better information about smoking policies within venues and also how smoky people find those smoking venues.

    Has anyone got any suggestions to get this next phase started?

  3. #143
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Smoking

    Originally posted by Andy McGregor
    <snip>My motivation is related to health. If you breathe cigarette smoke there is a chance that it will cause you to have an illness which might even shorten your life. At the very least it will cause you some short term discomfort.
    {snip}
    Has anyone got any suggestions to get this next phase started?
    I too loathe having to breathe people's smoke, but I think we'll be on a hiding to nothing by majoring on the health risks. In reality, the actual additional risk from the occasional exposure to the amount of smoke we're talking about here is probably unmeasurable - certainly in comparison to the Roy Castle example, with many years spent playing in very smoky unventilated clubs.

    It isn't yet as socially unacceptable to force others to breathe one's fag smoke as it is to spit in their face, and until it is, (roll on that day), we will have to resort to persuasion and voting with our feet.

    In the case of a venue manager who has an "allow smoking" policy, persuasion should probably focus on canvassing opinion, to see if the people that go to the venue really are as tolerant of the smoke as (s)he believes, but unless enough people make their views known, there is little that can be done, except go somewhere else, and (politely) make it clear why.

    Chris

  4. #144
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    Smoking and Dancing - The Future

    Originally posted by ChrisA
    I too loathe having to breathe people's smoke, but I think we'll be on a hiding to nothing by majoring on the health risks. In reality, the actual additional risk from the occasional exposure to the amount of smoke we're talking about here is probably unmeasurable - certainly in comparison to the Roy Castle example, with many years spent playing in very smoky unventilated clubs.
    We don't know the risk assiciated with exposure to different levels of smoke - nobody has calibrated it. There is a level of uncertainty. But why should we take that risk, whatever it's level?

    Originally posted by ChrisA
    It isn't yet as socially unacceptable to force others to breathe one's fag smoke as it is to spit in their face, and until it is, (roll on that day), we will have to resort to persuasion and voting with our feet.
    I would probably prefer to have spit on my face rather than cigarette smoke in my lungs - a face is much easier to clean.

    Originally posted by ChrisA
    In the case of a venue manager who has an "allow smoking" policy, persuasion should probably focus on canvassing opinion, to see if the people that go to the venue really are as tolerant of the smoke as (s)he believes, but unless enough people make their views known, there is little that can be done, except go somewhere else, and (politely) make it clear why.Chris
    The problem we've got with this approach is that it takes guts. I am thick skinned (politics makes you that way) and I had to take a deep breath and be incredibly brave when I politely told the teacher at Rochester that I liked her lesson but I wouldn't be back because of the smoking.

    Most people want to be seen as nice and certainly avoid being confrontational. I think that they'll vote with their feet but the won't tell the venue manager.

    And so to my plan. This is currently only an outline plan. I would love suggestions for imrovements.

    1. Start a website for this subject.

    2. Call/email each venue in the South East and ask them about their smoking policy.

    3. List venues which allow smoking and dancing to mix in the same room.

    4. List alternatives in the same area that are smoke free.

    5. Make sure venue owners know they are listed and give them a chance to change.

    6. Ask other people in different areas to do the same to get a nationwide list.

    7. Publicise the list as the place to find out where to go.

    I'm sure this can be improved upon. Please pm me or put your suggestion on this thread.

  5. #145
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Smoking

    Originally posted by ChrisA
    I too loathe having to breathe people's smoke, but I think we'll be on a hiding to nothing by majoring on the health risks. In reality, the actual additional risk from the occasional exposure to the amount of smoke we're talking about here is probably unmeasurable - certainly in comparison to the Roy Castle example, with many years spent playing in very smoky unventilated clubs.
    Actually. That depends on whether you are taking a long term, or short term view on the health risks.

    I have asthma pretty badly, and when I'm exercising in any way, including dancing, breathing in a huge lungful of cigarette smoke can quite often cause me to have an attack. And trust me, it's not a pleasant experience.

    Steve

  6. #146
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Smoking

    Originally posted by TheTramp
    ...breathing in a huge lungful of cigarette smoke...
    And The Tramp's lungs are huge - in fact, everything I've seen of him is huge

  7. #147
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Smoking

    Originally posted by Andy McGregor
    And The Tramp's lungs are huge - in fact, everything I've seen of him is huge
    Is he a 'member ' of the Tory party too?

    Franck.

  8. #148
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    *sigh*

    Stop that. Right now.

    Steve

  9. #149
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Smoking

    Originally posted by TheTramp
    I have asthma pretty badly, and when I'm exercising in any way, including dancing, breathing in a huge lungful of cigarette smoke can quite often cause me to have an attack. And trust me, it's not a pleasant experience.
    Point taken, Steve. I had asthma for a few years a long time ago, so I know what it can be like - terrifying.

    But if a venue manager believes (however erroneously) that he'd lose a substantial amount of business by banning smoking, even on or near the dance floor, my guess would be that he'd also be unenlightened enough to believe that losing the odd asthma sufferer would be preferable. So I still think that majoring on the health aspects is unlikely to be a campaign winner.

    Smoking, of course, isn't the only issue that fails to be tackled for fear of somehow offending people - I know of at least one Ceroc venue at which the "geeks/pervs/weirdos" factor - albeit very minor in the grand scheme of things - resulted in several newcomer ladies having a bad experience and being put right off.

    But that's a topic for another thread.... I turn into a proper Mr Angry on that one so I'll shut up now

    Chris

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Smoking

    Originally posted by ChrisA
    Point taken, Steve. I had asthma for a few years a long time ago, so I know what it can be like - terrifying.

    But if a venue manager believes (however erroneously) that he'd lose a substantial amount of business by banning smoking, even on or near the dance floor, my guess would be that he'd also be unenlightened enough to believe that losing the odd asthma sufferer would be preferable. So I still think that majoring on the health aspects is unlikely to be a campaign winner.

    Smoking, of course, isn't the only issue that fails to be tackled for fear of somehow offending people - I know of at least one Ceroc venue at which the "geeks/pervs/weirdos" factor - albeit very minor in the grand scheme of things - resulted in several newcomer ladies having a bad experience and being put right off.

    But that's a topic for another thread.... I turn into a proper Mr Angry on that one so I'll shut up now

    Chris
    True. But then, a lot more people are suffering from asthma these days, so soon we'll be a political lobby all on our own.

    However, I think that the main area to major on, is the result of the poll above. Only 17% of people said that they were prepared to put up with smoky dance floors. That leaves 83% of people saying that they don't like them (or hate, or won't go to). I think that almost any body carrying out a poll, would be delighted with an 83% majority in their favour. Surely, this should be giving a message to dance organisers (although, I freely admit that this poll isn't completely representative of dancers as a whole, and that local polls would carry more weight in any decision).

    As for the other. I'm sure that you could find one of the threads all about that sort of behaviour, and let Mr. Angry out

    Steve

  11. #151
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    Re: Smoking

    I'm repeating myself:-
    Originally posted by Sheepman
    I have a lingering unpleasant memory of doing blues with a heavy smoker, I almost choked on a faceful of smoky hair. I'm sure she was a wonderful dancer, but I can't recall anything about that.
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tazmanian Devil
    I have never had someone refuse to dance with me because I'm a smoker. Do you refuse to dance with someone just because they are a smoker?
    I would never have considered refusing a dance with a smoker, though if I'd spotted them smoking I would tend to give them a wide berth. If they do smell smoky I certainly wouldn't stay on for a second dance. Perhaps I should be brutal in future and give the reason why? Though spoiling someone elses evening is not what I'm there for. (Who ever has the nerve to mention it to a dancer with B.O. unless they are intimate?)
    Similarly I have never complained about smoky venues to the organisers, I just tend to avoid the venue, unless "duty" means I can't. In this area we are lucky to have the best venues and dancers where smoking is banned, so it isn't a difficult choice.

    Andy, re. your plan of action, maybe it would be easier to get one of the listing or link websites to show which of the venues are non smoking. This would mean tapping into a site which already has "footfall", though I could understand if the poeple running these sites would be too conservative (small c) to risk upsetting the smoking venue organisers.

    Greg

  12. #152
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    Re: Re: Smoking

    Originally posted by Sheepman
    Andy, re. your plan of action, maybe it would be easier to get one of the listing or link websites to show which of the venues are non smoking. This would mean tapping into a site which already has "footfall", though I could understand if the poeple running these sites would be too conservative (small c) to risk upsetting the smoking venue organisers.Greg
    I have been considering asking Lynda as she's a mate. But I've decided that I shouldn't put her on the spot. So I suppose I shouldn't even consider doing the same to other people who list venues. What I thought I'd do was ask the other listing sites to do a link exchange. Also, I expect the venues who currently ban smoking would be happy to do a link exchange

    Also, I'll enrol the help of ASH who've been useful in the past on a anti-smoking project I championed (successfully) at our local hospital group.

    Anyone got any suggestions for a name for the site?

  13. #153
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Smoking

    Originally posted by TheTramp
    However, I think that the main area to major on, is the result of the poll above.
    {snip}
    I think that almost any body carrying out a poll, would be delighted with an 83% majority in their favour.
    Strongly agree.


    As for the other. I'm sure that you could find one of the threads all about that sort of behaviour, and let Mr. Angry out
    ... found the April/May thread on sleaze - most of Mr Angry's outburst has already been covered, so maybe I should keep him locked up for now

    Chris

  14. #154
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    Originally posted by Andy McGregor
    So, from the list on the Ceroc Kent website, that means that there's smoking at the 9 following venues;

    Canterbury - Wednesdays

    Does anyone on the Forum have any alternatives to suggest for us non-smokers who care about our health, sense of smell, personal freshness, etc, etc, etc?
    Dear Andy (et al)

    Just to let you know that Canterbury Ceroc is actually a non-smoking venue, so please adjust your list accordingly. Any smokers we do have always smoke outside the venue, which keeps the air smoke-free. We, as crew, don't actually ban them from smoking, it's just an unwritten rule, so even our newbies dive outside for a fag.

    We teach our punters well!

    On another note, it may be worth visiting the other venues you mention before making your 'list'.


    Funky Si (DJ Canterbury)

    www.kordmusic.com

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    Re: Re: Re: Smoking

    Originally posted by Andy McGregor
    Anyone got any suggestions for a name for the site?
    I'm struggling here, I don't think anything like "freshjive" or "cleanjive" would create the right impression!
    How about sweetdreamsmyexsmoker
    or bgonedamnsmog

    you weren't thinking short and snappy were you?

    G

  16. #156
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    Re: Re: Re: Smoking

    Originally posted by Andy McGregor

    Anyone got any suggestions for a name for the site?
    smokefreejive, smokelessjive ?

  17. #157
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    Originally posted by Funky Si
    Dear Andy (et al)

    Just to let you know that Canterbury Ceroc is actually a non-smoking venue, so please adjust your list accordingly. Any smokers we do have always smoke outside the venue, which keeps the air smoke-free. We, as crew, don't actually ban them from smoking, it's just an unwritten rule, so even our newbies dive outside for a fag.

    We teach our punters well!

    On another note, it may be worth visiting the other venues you mention before making your 'list'.


    Funky Si (DJ Canterbury)
    This is really difficult. You allow smoking but no-one smokes. It's an unwritten rule than the air is smoke free. I have one simple question.

    What's stopping you banning smoking in Canterbury Ceroc?

    If absolutely everyone is going outside then you'll lose no business as nobody is being asked to change their habits. On the other hand, why should I go to Canterbury Ceroc where they might smoke because it's not banned when I could go to an alternative where it is definitely banned? What's to stop the chap who held his cigarette out over the crowded dance floor in Rochester turning up and insisting he is within his rights to do the same in Canterbury?

  18. #158
    Ceroc DJ Funky Si's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Andy McGregor
    This is really difficult. You allow smoking but no-one smokes. It's an unwritten rule than the air is smoke free. I have one simple question.

    What's stopping you banning smoking in Canterbury Ceroc?

    If absolutely everyone is going outside then you'll lose no business as nobody is being asked to change their habits. On the other hand, why should I go to Canterbury Ceroc where they might smoke because it's not banned when I could go to an alternative where it is definitely banned? What's to stop the chap who held his cigarette out over the crowded dance floor in Rochester turning up and insisting he is within his rights to do the same in Canterbury?
    I think you are being a tad pedantic Andy!

    People don't smoke in Canterbury because we're lucky in the respect that our punters are socially aware, and because the few smokers we have do consider the non-smokers views and agree that it makes a more pleasant environment to smoke outside, so therefore we don't have to 'ban' it in the official sense.

    We have been in Canterbury for well over 3 years and we have never had anyone lighting up in the hall. Besides, as Kris (teacher) is mildly asthmatic, she would probably karate kick the fag from their mouths before they had the chance to light it anyway!

    On a serious note though, if someone insisted on lighting up in the hall, they would be politely asked to refrain. If they chose to ignore this then Kris, as venue manager, would be able to ban them if necessary.

    Funky Si


    www.kordmusic.com

  19. #159
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    Originally posted by Funky Si
    I think you are being a tad pedantic Andy!
    www.kordmusic.com
    Sorry, I'll be very specific.

    What's stopping you banning smoking in Canterbury Ceroc?

  20. #160
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    Originally posted by Andy McGregor
    Sorry, I'll be very specific.

    What's stopping you banning smoking in Canterbury Ceroc?
    What stops people smoking in a church?

    We don't have to activley ban it because people just don't do it. It's like us banning fly fishing in the venue!

    Funky Si

    www.kordmusic.com

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