Smoking and Dancing don't mix

[Andy McGregor]

So, who's quit for the new year?

And how's it going?

[Lory]

So, who's quit for the new year?

And how's it going?

I have 2 friends, both middle aged men (dancers) who'd smoked for years, both packed up last summer and both said that getting through Xmas and the New Year was the toughest hurdle yet BUT I'm glad to report, they did it and they're both still NON smokers

[Zebra Woman]

I will suggest to Phil Roberts that he at least requests smokers to use the tables furthest from the dance floor in venues like Wicksteed and Wellingborough where there is lots of room for tables. In Wicksteed, as there is food served, the area down two sides of the floor should, IMO, be non-smoking. The MK tea-dance is trickier - perhaps no smoking before 7pm as a compromise.

I too dislike smoke, but I do not wish to close MJ off to anybody.

I would hate to close MJ off to anybody too...But is it so hard to get up and go and smoke that fag outside???? If you can dance surely you can also walk???

If it is too much trouble. Well yes, I guess I would like to close MJ off to those people. Sorry .

IMO Areas of smoking and non smoking do not work, we've been through the swiming pool analogy at least three times already. YAWN

Why not suggest to Phil Roberts that he reads the poll on smoking? Or even conduct his own research amongst his Ceroccentral customers (just incase this Forum isn't representative of the masses).

Have to say I have received a lot of positve rep from CerocCentral customers , they agreed Wicksteed was smoky and were glad I had pointed it out.

ZW

[SilverFox]

In Tanzania smoked zebra steaks are something of a delicacy.

[bigdjiver]

I would hate to close MJ off to anybody too...But is it so hard to get up and go and smoke that fag outside???? If you can dance surely you can also walk???

Some people did, even though it was cold outside.

IMO Areas of smoking and non smoking do not work,we've been through the swiming pool analogy at least three times already. YAWN

If you are now going to start complaining about people smoking 75ft away I think thou doth protest too much.

One of the foul things about tobacco is that the ash and odour persist. Even if the night is made non-smoking you will sitll get all of the uncleanable deritus from the hard service the venue undergoes.

Why not suggest to Phil Roberts that he reads the poll on smoking? Or even conduct his own research amongst his Ceroccentral customers (just incase this Forum isn't representative of the masses).

I have not asked yet, but I have no doubt that this is a well considered policy. Phil works very hard to get his venues running to the best possible standards. He is very health concious himself. He is running a business.

Have to say I have received a lot of positve rep from CerocCentral customers , they agreed Wicksteed was smoky and were glad I had pointed it out.

I have no doubt that you did. Did you ask them if they would pay extra for a no smoking night?

ZW

Flower? Have you no consideration for hay fever sufferers?

[Yogi_Bear]

Until reading the posts on this thread, I had no idea that so many Forumites had been to venues like Wicksteed, Kettering. Nor had I realised so many of Ceroc Central's venues allowed smokers. Perhaps someonw should construct a list of all theire vanues sorted by degree of smokiness...or maybe it's been done already.

[Andy McGregor]

I have not asked yet, but I have no doubt that this is a well considered policy. Phil works very hard to get his venues running to the best possible standards. He is very health concious himself. He is running a business.

The most telling statement is 'he is running a business'. Those of us who detest breathing cigarette smoke should help the likes of Phil Roberts to make a business decision. Stop going to his venues that allow smoking and make sure he knows why ....

[Zebra Woman]

Tonight I could go dancing at Luton Ceroc.

But I'm not.

Can you guess why?

[bigdjiver]

I did go to Luton tonight. The Vauhall centre has a high ceiling and is air conditioned. The first survey I did of the venue I found nobody smoking. The second time only two. I did one survey of the class at the Addison Centre the night before and found nobody smoking at that time. When I was not actively looking for smokers I noticed none. It is my view, so far, that the Ceroc Central atendees are pretty good at self-regulation. and that there is not actually a problem worth making a fuss about.

However, I will keep my eyes and nostrils and mind open.

[Allez-Cat]

With respect to BDJ - there was a whole bunch of 'em just to the right of the bar, puffin' away like good 'uns. Just as well the venue does have a/c, since it would have been uncomfortable. Curiously, there were also a handful who congregated out in the lobby from time to time - considerately.

BTW "In Tanzania smoked zebra steaks are something of a delicacy" (earlier posting by SilverFox): nah! They're sun-dried, hence the strips. Biltong, anybody?

[bigdjiver]

With respect to BDJ - there was a whole bunch of 'em just to the right of the bar, puffin' away like good 'uns. Just as well the venue does have a/c, since it would have been uncomfortable. Curiously, there were also a handful who congregated out in the lobby from time to time - considerately...

I was positioned in the opposite cormer. I reported the results of my two walk arounds counting smokers. The two I saw were on the right of the bar, where you said. As well as the lobby smokers, there was one I saw went all the way outside.

Looking for them took more away from my night than their smoking.

[Allez-Cat]

Looking for them took more away from my night than their smoking.

Who needed to go looking? You could smell it from the doorway. Hence my remark about the a/c. But I sense hackles rising, so I'll gently point out that this thread has gone wildly off orbit. Back on track, Houston:

2leftfeet - did you enjoy your weekend, where did you go, and what were your impressions?

[bigdjiver]

Who needed to go looking?

Someone who is trying to separate the facts from prejudice.

You could smell it from the doorway.

There is a difference between a no-smoking venue and a no-smoking night. Nicotine and ash are very pervasive, and no venue cleans to the necessary degree to remove all residues. I have to concur with the description of Wellingborough as smoky, but I am of the opinion that it is mainly due to the hard wear it gets during the rest of the week. This is the only Ceroc Central venue that I know that I would so describe. I was not aware of enough smoking going on in the spacious, air-conditioned venue at Luton to worry me in the slightest.

If what worries the banners so much is almost all down to residue from other nights then the commercial case for a ban on the night does not stand up.

Most businessman count votes on notes.

The majority are just not that concerned about smoking on the night, and it does not appear to me to be a significant problem either.

[Zebra Woman]

SO SORRY SCOTTISH PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE SMOKE FREE VENUES..... this post will probably be of no interest to you

Someone who is trying to separate the facts from prejudice.

I am trying to separate facts from prejudice too. I am trying to be scientific in my testing by using the smell of my cardigan the following day rather than trying to actually count smokers. I agree it detracts from the evening's enjoyment.

It is my view, so far, that the Ceroc Central atendees are pretty good at self-regulation. and that there is not actually a problem worth making a fuss about.

This statement was contradicted by Allez cat below. Many others have spoken to me since and disagreed vehemently with your view.

With respect to BDJ - there was a whole bunch of 'em just to the right of the bar, puffin' away like good 'uns. Just as well the venue does have a/c, since it would have been uncomfortable. Curiously, there were also a handful who congregated out in the lobby from time to time - considerately.

.....and from another post:

Who needed to go looking? You could smell it from the doorway.

From what I hear BigD , you spent some time on the stage chatting to the DJ at Luton who was smoking a fair bit. So from that I assume that smoke doesn't bother you at all or the a/c was working well.

There is a difference between a no-smoking venue and a no-smoking night. Nicotine and ash are very pervasive, and no venue cleans to the necessary degree to remove all residues.

Yes there is a difference, but not having fresh smoke in the air on the night would please the smokers and non smoker alike. As you can tell from both of the 'If smoking was banned at your venue' polls.

Are you saying it's not worth banning smoking because there is so much nicotine and ash residue from previous nights?

I would have to disagree. It would be a huge improvement for me and my friends. I would at least have no risk of a cough and perhaps just the slightest smell of smoke on my clothes and hair.

I have to concur with the description of Wellingborough as smoky, but I am of the opinion that it is mainly due to the hard wear it gets during the rest of the week. This is the only Ceroc Central venue that I know that I would so describe.

It certainly is the smokiest venue,I'll give you that. IMO The reason it is smoky is purely down to the fact that the ceroc central smokers are not all self regulating (SOME ARE - THANK YOU ), nothing to do with what a hard time the venue has during the rest of the week

If what worries the banners so much is almost all down to residue from other nights then the commercial case for a ban on the night does not stand up.

Most businessman count votes on notes.

The majority are just not that concerned about smoking on the night, and it does not appear to me to be a significant problem either.

From all the smoking threads and the polls, I think we can safely say smoking is a problem , and the majority of people would prefer it to take place outside. I only know two people who think otherwise and you're one of them.

Rather than losing customers after banning smoking I would suggest that the numbers would be sustained or even increased if the polls are to be believed. Good commmercial move.

IMO There is a huge difference between a non-smoking Ceroc night in a normally smoky venue, and a Ceroc night where smoking is allowed. I would put up with the stale smell from the previous nights smoking. Plus a successful conversion to a non-smoking Ceroc night could lead to other smoke free nights at that venue and ultimately a clean venue.

Which we will get in the end anyway.

So why wait???

[bigdjiver]

Oops - I did not look at the DJ whilst doing my headcount at Luton. (Maybe the DJ at Bedford smokes too.) The two I saw smoking were the same group that Allez cat described. I am just taking "snapshots", I claimed nothing more. These may be unrepresentative. I am not going to give up dancing time to do the job thoroughly.

From all the smoking threads and the polls, I think we can safely say smoking is a problem , and the majority of people would prefer it to take place outside. I only know two people who think otherwise and you're one of them.

I hate smoking. My Mother suffered from Emphysema for 40+ years, and I have seen two friends go through terminal lung cancer.

I prefer smokers not to smoke, and, if they must, to do so outside. Where have I said otherwise?

I think that the difference between us is that I do not see it as a major problem at dance nights, and do not believe the commercial case for a ban proven.

Any survey here is also likely to be unrepresentative. Those that agree will vote, and tell you, the others tend to keep quiet. I would guess the population here is more health conscious than the norm. Meanwhile the venues here are full of people who do not see it as a critical problem.

In my estimation we are doing more good by making as easy as possible for smokers to take up MJ, and, in my experience, they usually prefer to dance rather than to smoke.

I would prefer the Government to ban smoking in public places.

[Allez-Cat]

I hate smoking. My Mother suffered from Emphysema for 40+ years, and I have seen two friends go through terminal lung cancer.

Sheesh. My gast is flabbered: I simply cannot conceive how anyone could then go on to argue logically in favour of a commercial case . The stance is morally indefensible. And if people are interested in the effects of passive smoking - which is what is being visited upon us - then refer yourelves to http://www.ash.org.uk/html/factsheets/html/fact08.html

My apologies to others for perpetuating the thread hi-jack.

[bigdjiver]

Sheesh. My gast is flabbered: I simply cannot conceive how anyone could then go on to argue logically in favour of a commercial case . The stance is morally indefensible. And if people are interested in the effects of passive smoking - which is what is being visited upon us - then refer yourelves to http://www.ash.org.uk/html/factsheets/html/fact08.html

My apologies to others for perpetuating the thread hi-jack.

Ceroc is a business. If we can attack their policy with a commercial case and a moral one, I would expect to win the day.

It is possible to attack Government policy with a commercial and a moral case. The damage and costs associated with smoking are immense. The only benefit that I know of that smoking gives, apart from the comfortof a dummy substitute, is to alleviate the withdrawal sympthoms associated with not smoking.

I promote MJ any way I can because it is fun, and, in my view, good for mental and physical health. I do not want to put any barriers between smokers enjoying those benefits too. I believe that if Ceroc banned smoking at their venues then it would be one more reason for some beginners not to come again. I believe that the actuality is, in the venues that I know, that the vast majority of smokers will not actually smoke because they enjoy dancing too much.

I did not see anybody at all smoking tonight. I did smell cigarette smoke, near the bar. That was at 8:40, just as the beginner lesson was ending. There was only two people anywhere near that area. I have never seen them smoking. The only two others not in the class were in to process of joining.

Unpopular and incredible as my view might be to some, I believe that the case for banning smoking is not made, and that banning it might result in nett damage to Ceroc and to the overall health of the nation. I will be very happy if someone can convince me otherwise.

[Lory]

OMG this argument is just getting sillier and sillier!

People who smoke still use public transport

They still fly

They still work in 'no smoking' offices

They still go to collage and uni classes

They still go to the gym

And soon they'll have to go pubs and restaurants and survive, and if they don't, they'll just have to stay at home.

I can't see ALL the above businesses failing, can you?

I honestly don't believe that smokers these days EXPECT to be able to smoke.

Chattng to a smoking friend of mine, she said she knows the days are numbered and when they do ban it, she'll happily smoke outside, no argument but untill then, she'll smoke where she's allowed!

[CJ]

Mmmm...

Commercially bad news to ban smoking....

I have to say I haven't seen Franck out in a city centre with his begging bowl and doggie yet, so am assuming with some confidence that Ceroc (Gla) {which incorporates Stirling, Perth, Aberdeen and some other outposts } is surviving ok.

[Andy McGregor]

Commercially bad news to ban smoking....

It seems to me that more Ceroc Franchisees have decided to allow smoking than Ceroc Franchisees that have decided to ban smoking. This MUST be a commercial decision - what else could it be?