Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567
Results 121 to 125 of 125

Thread: Floor Craft.... Or lack of

  1. #121
    An Eclectic Toaster
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    2,042
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Denial of responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by happygoldfish View Post
    [Suppose I am driving along the road, and I lose control of my car, and it mounts the pavement, going straight towards a girl who is walking towards me.

    If she can jump out of the way, obviously she should.

    But if she isn't concentrating, or doesn't have enough presence of mind, and doesn't jump, then that doesn't make it partly her fault, or responsibiity, if she's injured.

    It isn't her job to keep an eye on the road. And even if she does see the danger in time, it's usually still 100% my fault if I hit her.

    Even if she's "stupid enough to let me, and not do anything to stop it", it's still entirely my fault. Isn't it?
    Sorry hgf, an admirable attempt to snatch "Biggest Straw Man of the 21st century" from that movie remake with Nicolas Cage in it, but I think the gong still lies with the movie guys.

    But only just.

    Given that the following partner in a dance is constantly interacting with the lead and the floor around them, and can exert active feedback, the scenario you present above isn't remotely comparable. Unless your "partner" is the car and they dance like a corpse.

  2. #122
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Worcester, UK
    Posts
    4,157
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Denial of responsibility

    The driving analogy is an interesting one. When I'm a passenger and the driver is sleepy, I try to make conversation and help keep hir awake. There are other things that front-seat passengers do to make driving a safer process: seatbelts, warning about speed cameras, navigating, looking for roadsigns, pausing conversations as appropriate, and so forth. As before, I don't know whether that is a shared responsibility or part of being a cooperating passenger.

    Obviously the point of the analogy is that in the specific matter of steering, the driver steers, and the passenger does not (indeed, cannot), and therefore the driver is solely responsible for accurate steering. The analogy is slightly misleading, though. A passenger in a car is not directly involved with the steering. Indeed, one can steer a car without a passenger being present. By contrast, a follower is intimately involved with the "steering" in a dance, as she interprets the lead and moves herself in an appropriate manner.

    Another analogy is KITT of the TV series Knight Rider. Here we have an intelligent car, capable of moving itself, and also capable of responding to its driver. The series has KITT and Michael Knight working as a team to keep each other safe, along with assorted damsels in distress. I don't want to be quite as independant as KITT when I follow, but that general sense of teamwork and intelligence seems a good one to me.

  3. #123
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Denial of responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by happygoldfish View Post
    Ah! In most cases, I would disagree with your partner's (share of) responsibiity.

    Suppose I am driving along the road, and I lose control of my car, and it mounts the pavement, going straight towards a girl who is walking towards me.
    The "follower as car" analogy can be stretched too far - i.e. cars don't have volition. Well, except Christine. And Trucks. And Cars. And Devil Car. And... hmmm, it's getting scary now.

    OK, anyway, I think Ducasi's view is reasonable, although I'd refine it a bit to say "If I lead a follower someplace where she sees something wrong happening, such as forward into a collision, she has some responsibility for avoiding that collision".

    How much "some" means is the question. To my mind, the follower always has minority responsibility - ranging from 0% right up to maybe 30-40% in some cases - averaging maybe 10%. And most of that 10% is in terms of not taking steps that are too large.

    But I agree with the fundamental point that follower's should never have to actively contribute to floorcraft, in the sense of looking around. That's the leader's job.

    Quote Originally Posted by happygoldfish View Post
    But unfortunately, in MJ culture, it seems there is still no social stigma against men who let their partners get injured.
    Unfortunately, the "flashy crowd-pleasing moves" are typically the ones which are dangerous. Look at Fulham for examples of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by happygoldfish View Post
    This culture of denial of responsibility is a male culture, and there's almost nothing that female MJers can do about it.
    Disagree. For example, they can refuse to dance with poor-floorcraft leaders, instead of gazing up at them in awe (again, Fulham...).

    If "poor floorcraft" were seen by followers as being as unacceptable as perving / yanking / smelling, then the message would soon get across I think.

  4. #124
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Cruden Bay (Aberde
    Posts
    7,053
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Denial of responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by happygoldfish View Post
    This culture of denial of responsibility is a male culture, and there's almost nothing that female MJers can do about it. [/indent]
    no. It's not a "male" culture. It's not a MJ culture either. It's one bread from self-centered people who are looking out for themselves before anything/anyone else. I also think that most people find it less prevalent the further from London you get.

  5. #125
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Denial of responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    . I also think that most people find it less prevalent the further from London you get.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 52
    Last Post: 14th-February-2006, 12:39 AM
  2. Wiggling (lack thereof)
    By Pete in forum Beginners corner
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 7th-November-2004, 02:18 PM
  3. Floorcraft ... or lack of it!!
    By Gus in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 4th-January-2003, 12:18 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •