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Thread: Woodface versus Apple

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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Moved from the iPhone thread - DavidJames

    Most forms of advertising are shoddy but apples seems more shoddy than most.

    I don't hate apple. Infact I used to be a graphic designers a few years back and made the trasition from PC to Mac G4's Quark was easier to use and they did genuinly seem better. Would never have got one for home though as I was into programming and liked games and the amount of sotware / support available.

    With the Ipod. It was just the way everyone jumps on the bandwagon. Yeah there ok and they have made the MP3 player less geeky and possibly changed music history in the way that music is brought now, However they are far from cheap for what they are and much better options are out there IMO.

    Same with Iphone. They are nothing really new. Cert no revolution or inovation really. Yes they might have a touch screen that can do special (but ultimatly pointless) things, but tutch screen phones have been around for yonks. I had an SPV last year that had windows built in. You could do everything you wanted to do with a PC on it giving it more functionality than an iphone. It also doubled up as a sat nav with tom tom installed and had wi-fi for net / Lan access. Hell I could access the files and remote desktop my PC at home with it. Lets see you do that with an Iphone.

    Give it 3-4 months and there will be responses from Nokia, Samsung etc with their own better versions. Me? I'll stick with my old nokia till then.
    Last edited by David Bailey; 13th-July-2007 at 01:07 PM.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Quote Originally Posted by pmjd View Post
    and Apple's advertising is different to every other form of advertising on the planet
    No, but the Apple products are arguably much more dependent on "image" than most others, so "marketing" is probably more important than image. Kind of reminds me of the "deceitful companies" thread...

    The iPhone looks interesting, but it already seems a bit dated, feature-wise - in 6 months' time, it'll be even more so. The benefits of iPod integration - the main selling point to me - don't seem to outweight the cost and the poor set of other features to me.

    Apple stuff is expensive, basically - you pay a premium for the brand name.

    EDIT: I've just realised I've agreed with everything woodface said in his previous post.

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    Omnipresent Administrator Franck's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    No, but the Apple products are arguably much more dependent on "image" than most others, so "marketing" is probably more important than image. Kind of reminds me of the "deceitful companies" thread...
    This would be true if users didn't perceive any value after purchase. Everyone who owns a mac, and possibly an ipod / iphone too, are very happy with it and would never go back to the alternatives.

    Of all the people I know who switched to Apple, all of them now realise the benefits, in particular the ease of use and the fact that it just works as you would expect, without intruding with weird technical messages.
    If Apple was all about image, then people would switch to the latest craze (do I hear Zune ) and show no brand commitment.

    Of course, Apple can't provide everything, and they have to make some compromises (for example the iphone doesn't have 3G as the 3G chip would drain the battery too quickly) but overall, Apple has kept me at the cutting edge of design, usability and technology (bluetooth and wifi integration for example) for many years, and like everyone who has owned a mac in recent years, I'm not going back to anything else currently available.
    Franck.

    There's an A.P.P. for that!

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck View Post
    like everyone who has owned a mac in recent years, I'm not going back to anything else currently available.
    Yeah, but that's just coz you can't - you've got no money left after buying Mac stuff

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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    I have to say.. I like the design of the Macs.. and Vista (from what I gather is Very Mac like.. especially in the way that lots of software refuses to run on it too ) The Interface is nice, the equipment is nice. But I'm a PC man though and though. Which leads me to my question.. I don't know if this is an issue or not but do PDA's work with Apples? if so which ones and how? Is there an Apple version of Activesync out there for Pocket PC's?? or are they incompatable ??

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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post

    EDIT: I've just realised I've agreed with everything woodface said in his previous post.
    A few people have said that recently. Is it me or is the forum going downhill?

    The problem is Apple used Think they are using cutting edge technology when in reality they are getting a redesigned (oten using clear plastic) wheel.

    The Imac for example. Cutting edge? Why? because it had a monitor built in. I had an old 8086 machine that had a green screen built in. Was easier to repair too (didn't end up as a fish tank).

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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970 View Post
    I don't know if this is an issue or not but do PDA's work with Apples? if so which ones and how? Is there an Apple version of Activesync out there for Pocket PC's?? or are they incompatable ??

    They are incompatable. My guess is if you want one wait for a mac one. I think some of HP's Ipaqs worked with macs.

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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    No Microsoft doesn't provide Activesync for macs but others have spotted the gap in the market and made it possible to.

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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970 View Post
    I have to say.. I like the design of the Macs.. and Vista (from what I gather is Very Mac like.. especially in the way that lots of software refuses to run on it too ) The Interface is nice, the equipment is nice. But I'm a PC man though and though. Which leads me to my question.. I don't know if this is an issue or not but do PDA's work with Apples? if so which ones and how? Is there an Apple version of Activesync out there for Pocket PC's?? or are they incompatable ??
    I have what I consider to be the best PDA ever made (Tapwave Zodiac II), and it works perfectly with MacOS X. For syncing, I use The Missing Sync - which can more-or-less sync anything at all - certainly Windows Mobile is well within its remit.

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    Registered User Beowulf's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Interesting.. it was a theoretical question, there's no way I'll be buying a Mac I'm afraid. I need to develop applications for 100% Windows user client base using Visual Studio for windows to run Applications on Ruggedised Pocket PC 2005 handhelds.

    I will concede that Mac looks nicer.. but looks aren't everything.

    I'll even concede That Mac will outperform PC on some thing's but I think a PC is more broad spectrum and less specialised (regardless what the PC 'vs' Mac funny vids say!)

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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Well Beo you could get parallels and a windows license to run windows apps on your mac desktop but it would be a bit of an expensive way to own a windows computer if you never used OSX

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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Being an IT contractor I think I can safly say though, in all the 1000's of contract ad's I have seen, none have involved a mac.

    If they are so secure and well designed, why are they not used in office and critical service environments?

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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970 View Post
    I will concede that Mac looks nicer.. but looks aren't everything.

    I'll even concede That Mac will outperform PC on some thing's but I think a PC is more broad spectrum and less specialised (regardless what the PC 'vs' Mac funny vids say!)
    Why am I a Mac user.... it's nothing to do with performance, or even looks. It's simply down to the fact that in most respects, MacOS X was designed to be as easy, quick, efficient, satisfying to use as Apple could make it - they constantly look at everything from the perspective of their users, and design their interfaces accordingly - and it works.

    Windows, on the other hand, for whatever reasons, is something I find incredibly frustrating to use - it's just one set of botches and workarounds and compromises after another. It's certainly improving (interface-wise) with every iteration, but it has a long long way to go, and it isn't always heading in the right direction.

    Computers are simply tools, at the end of the day - but given how much of my life I spend making use of 'em, I prefer to pick a tool that I love using, rather than to compromise and pick one that gets the job done, but makes life harder for me while I'm doing it.

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    Registered User Beowulf's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    hmm personally I think Vista, while it looks nice, is awful. As you say they are tools and as long as they get the job done then that's all that matters. I happen to think Windows is pretty easy.. but then I have been using it since I installed Windows 3.0 all those MANY MANY MANY years ago.

    I find the Mac interface confusing.. I guess it's just what your used to.

    It's not perfect, but no OS is...

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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    Being an IT contractor I think I can safly say though, in all the 1000's of contract ad's I have seen, none have involved a mac.

    If they are so secure and well designed, why are they not used in office and critical service environments?
    Seems good enough for the FBI A little bit out of date as it's a 2004 article but still worth noting.

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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970 View Post
    I find the Mac interface confusing.. I guess it's just what your used to.
    I found the OS9 one weird but I found OSX very easy to use.

    Like the video by the way Beo, think I saw it before somewhere.

    Got my sister an old blue imac for Christmas, it was good value for money, who isn't a computer person but could use it very easily and I haven't had her on the phone lots about how to fix it, unlike my Mum and Dad's, Uncle's, Auntie's and friends windows related problems

    Anyone else think it's maybe time for a new thread, Woodface Versus Apple, I think it could grow to be bigger than the Singletons Sofa

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Quote Originally Posted by pmjd View Post
    Anyone else think it's maybe time for a new thread, Woodface Versus Apple, I think it could grow to be bigger than the Singletons Sofa
    Let's find out

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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970 View Post
    hmm personally I think Vista, while it looks nice, is awful.
    Uh-oh. I'm about to get Vista inflicted on me at work.

    *heads off to do some pleading*

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970 View Post
    As you say they are tools and as long as they get the job done then that's all that matters.
    Ah - but you see that's it - that's not what I'm saying at all. Yes - they're tools. But if you want to use, say, a pair of secateurs, you can have an old-style pair, that has a straight scissor-type action, and traditional, slightly uncomfortable handles that dig into your hand a bit. Or you can go for one of these new-fangled ones with a ratchet system that means it's far easier to cut through much tougher items, and with handles that are contoured to easily fit the hand. You can do the same job with each - but one will help you do it much more quickly and enjoyably. Which is where Apple come in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970 View Post
    I happen to think Windows is pretty easy.. but then I have been using it since I installed Windows 3.0 all those MANY MANY MANY years ago.
    Here's a random example (this crops up purely because I've come across it today. Again.)
    Say ... I want to copy something from a notepad document to the clipboard, and paste it back, using keyboard shortcuts. Do it again using menus. Typical thing you might do dozens of times a day. Now open a command prompt, and do the same thing.

    I call that confusing.
    On a mac, it's the same wherever you're doing it. Now - I understand why it's done in a different way on Windows (the nature of ^C etc) - but even given that fact, the solution they've chosen is bizarre, to say the least. Consistency is a huge holy grail for interfaces, and it's something Windows has never really had.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970 View Post
    I find the Mac interface confusing.. I guess it's just what your used to.
    When you've used a bad interface for a long while, and you know the quirks and so on, yes, you can get by and work around them without thinking about it -but you still won't be working as fast as you would be with a well-designed one given the same level of experience.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970 View Post
    It's not perfect, but no OS is... [/URL]

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    Re: Apple Announces the iPhone (and it does look fabulous)!

    I submit the Amiga OS and its MUI based plugins, changeable pull-down menus , true multi-tasking ,hardware sprites etc...as the perfect OS. You dont know what you're missing.

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    Re: Woodface versus Apple


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