Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 81 to 89 of 89

Thread: Should MJ court the respect of other dances ? (and if so, how?)

  1. #81
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Ambrosden it gets
    Posts
    7,480
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Should MJ court the respect of other dances ? (and if so, how?)

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    This thread helps show the respect that Ceroc generates around the world:

    Plague!! or 'on the dance known as Ceroc' - Gargle Blaster Blues

    (The thread also speculates about how Ceroc dancers might view blues dance)

    Takes the word Hot shot to a new level

    Has ceroc ever pretended to be advance Tango ?

    It is what it is and has given a lot of people a easy intro into the world of dance

    Nice read anyway

  2. #82
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nr Cambridge
    Posts
    3,696
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Should MJ court the respect of other dances ? (and if so, how?)

    Good and interesting thread 'til it runs off topic near the end though how much you should base an opinion on anything from some YT clips, which is what many posters appear to have done, is debatable. I remember some posters on here being critical of the aesthetic of some blues clips that were posted in the aftermath of the comp at Breeze last year. I have said before that MJ is very much a dance for doing not for viewing and I don't think there is a single clip of it that I have seen on YT that I would take the time to revisit.

    Interesting also that one of the clips being (implicitly) criticised is of Nigel & Nina given their reputation for Blues expertise in this country.

  3. #83
    Registered User NZ Monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Should MJ court the respect of other dances ? (and if so, how?)

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Interesting also that one of the clips being (implicitly) criticised is of Nigel & Nina given their reputation for Blues expertise in this country.
    One of the pairs in the teams video is an instructor in Auckland.

    Unfortunately for my over-inflated sense of national pride, I had to agree with the comments made specifically about that clip

  4. #84
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,426
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Should MJ court the respect of other dances ? (and if so, how?)

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Good and interesting thread 'til it runs off topic near the end though how much you should base an opinion on anything from some YT clips, which is what many posters appear to have done, is debatable.
    It's interesting that one of the WCS forums (StrictlyWestie) recently had links to a couple of MJ clips, including one of the ones being criticised on GGB, and the people there were moderately positive about it.

    What's somewhat ironic is that GGB seems to have been formed to cater for blues dancers who got fed up that they "don't get no respect" on the Lindy forums. Pots and kettles...

    I have said before that MJ is very much a dance for doing not for viewing and I don't think there is a single clip of it that I have seen on YT that I would take the time to revisit.
    The one exception I can think of is the clip of Peter and Amy in the Midlands Open Final:



    Though again, I know some people very into ballroom who watched that and were quite critical about aspects of it. But then, I was pretty shocked at the poor floorcraft and musicality by Modern Jive standards at the one professional ballroom/latin comp I saw. We all tend to look for what we're used to...

  5. #85
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    10,015
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Should MJ court the respect of other dances ? (and if so, how?)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    It's interesting that one of the WCS forums (StrictlyWestie) recently had links to a couple of MJ clips, including one of the ones being criticised on GGB, and the people there were moderately positive about it.
    I thought that too, but then looking at the rest of the other videos, they were pretty poor (except N&N.)

    I think the key difference though is that that one was freestyle, while all the rest (as far I can tell/saw) were choreographed.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    The one exception I can think of is the clip of Peter and Amy in the Midlands Open Final:

    That's a really good example of what MJ can be. It's compelling. How telling is it though, that it is by a non-UK couple? More to the point, the style of Modern Jive we see in this video has very little to do with what Ceroc UK traditionally teach.

    While I think the blues forum discussion is misinformed on many aspects of Ceroc, there are some valid points within it.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  6. #86
    Registered User Lost Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Towcester
    Posts
    1,274
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Should MJ court the respect of other dances ? (and if so, how?)

    That clip of Amy and Peter dancing to "Temptation" is indeed very good, in the sense that unlike most MJ clips on You-Tube it isn't shot in semi darkness on a cheap mobile phone camera with the tinny sound of someone eating crisps and chatting to their mate and a title like "me and Harry messing about at MJ in our kitchen after 1 lesson". Even though the Amy and Peter footage is quite good it is still spoilt by people walking in front of the camera several times - not something you tend to see in the WCS routines on You-Tube.

    Even the best MJ clips tend to be technically less good than most of the WCS clips posted on the dance clips thread. The WCS clips seem to be done at least semi-professionally. As soon as any famous WCS couple have a new routine there is a decent quality clip of it up on You-Tube. Does this happen with new routines by famous MJ couples? - generally no. Is there decent quality footage of any of the winning showcase routines from any recent MJ competitions available on You-Tube for example? Not as far as I know.

    So quality and availability of decent MJ film clips is an issue compared with WCS but there are a couple of other issues. Firstly there seems to me to be more emphasis in WCS on choreographed routines whereas MJ is more about free-style . The Amy and Peter clip is I assume free-style so you cannot easily compare this with a choreographed WCS routine. Then there is the fact that the top WCS dancers are I believe full time professional dancers whereas this is not the case in MJ so again it is not really comparing like with like.

    At heart, and I accept this is a generalisation, WCS as danced professionally in America seems to be more about putting on a show for an audience - to a degree it seems to a bit "Hollywood" which is both a good and a bad thing. Yes, it can be very entertaining to watch and yes I can certainly admire the tremendous skill of the best dancers but somehow I personally cannot really warm to it. For me it seems just too slick and rather mannered as a style of social dancing but that is just my opinion (and in any event I could never begin to master the technical aspects, especially the footwork).

    Anyway my point is not to have a go at WCS dancers - I can understand its appeal and take my hat off to those who are struggling with what is obviously a steep learning curve. All I am pointing out is that the worlds of professional American WCS and MJ are in some respects very different so comparisons are difficult. These differences partly explain the disparity in the quality of footage that is available on You-Tube. Having said that I am a little surprised that Ceroc do not make more of an effort to make some professionally made footage of some of the top MJ dancers available on You-Tube as a means of raising its profile and perhaps boosting business.

  7. #87
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    bedford
    Posts
    4,899
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Should MJ court the respect of other dances ? (and if so, how?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Leader View Post
    ...Is there decent quality footage of any of the winning showcase routines from any recent MJ competitions available on You-Tube for example? Not as far as I know.

    So quality and availability of decent MJ film clips is an issue ...
    In the MJ comp world the tendency is to contract on terms that give the video copyright to the videographer. This is bad for just about everybody. The fear was that sales would take a long time to recoup the outlay, so the comp organisers went for lowest financial risk to themselves, as they perceived it.

  8. #88
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nr Cambridge
    Posts
    3,696
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Should MJ court the respect of other dances ? (and if so, how?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Leader View Post
    Then there is the fact that the top WCS dancers are I believe full time professional dancers whereas this is not the case in MJ so again it is not really comparing like with like.
    I think this is at the heart of it. There's plenty of dull WCS clips (including the ones I have posted myself) on You Tube - it's only really the Pros and top amateurs that bear repeated viewings and maybe MJ doesn't have people in that bracket yet. I can see why people like the Pete & Amy clip but, again for me, I wouldn't watch it more than once.

    The stuff I post on YT isn't really for others to watch and enjoy - it's for me (and those I am partnering) to view to see what is working and what is not working for us.

  9. #89
    Registered User Lost Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Towcester
    Posts
    1,274
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Should MJ court the respect of other dances ? (and if so, how?)

    This routine is rather nice in terms of musicality and story telling;


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •