Eating plans..

[Lory]

Spooky! I chucked my scales out an hour ago. They kept giving strange weights - old type design.

the Tale of the Tape is the real McCoy.

I've just ordered some digital 'fat measuring calipers'. I think they'll probably give the best indication of actually 'fat' loss!

You measure how thick your rolls of flab are Although, I can't seem to find what the optimum thickness is? Anyone know? And does it differ on different parts of the body (I know my fat does for sure )

It recommends (for women) to measure an inch above you right hip, your thigh (although it doesn't say where) and the back of you arm (tricep area)

This is them, they come with some sort of digital tape meaduse too (although, how hard is it to measure with a normal one? )

[Jive Brummie]

I'd touch this advice with a metaphorical large dose of salt. Please be aware that the above text is opposite to current World Health Guidelines (WHO) who recommend a diet low in saturated fat. Can I suggest talking to your General Practioner or Practice Nurse about what they might suggest a well balanced diet might be for you?

Hey Steve,

Yes you are exactly right, the WHO does suggest a diet low in saturated fat...

But in response, has it helped reduce the rising incedence of Heart Disease, Diabetes, Hypertension et al?

No.

If you would like to read more about all the good nutritional information have a look at Westonaprice. Not sure if it's a .org or .uk

Starter for 10...

Saturated fat makes up part of every single cell within the human body...
The myelin sheath surrounding every single nerve cell (motor and sensory) is made of saturated fat.
At least 60% dry weight of the brain...saturated fat!
Responsible for insulation of tissues and is the bodies secondary source of energy.
When the body goes into starvation response (due to rubbish diets) what form of energy does it store...fat.
The reason you would naturally take what I've said with a large pinch of salt (which you also need in your diet too) is because it goes against everything you've been told...by farmers, supermarkets...blah, blah, blah.

Little exercise for you. Think of your local supermarket...list all the aisles (as far as you can remember...then write down next to the aisle if it's peddling carb's fats or proteins)...it'll be carbs by the way.

I know it's not easy to comprehend, and it wasn't for me either when I learned all about it. I have been on an increased fat eating regime for the past 2 months. Energy has increased, I don't have the mid morning and mid afternoon lull. Body weight has increased (lean muscle mass), body fat percentage has decreased and overall I don't need to eat as much as often. I eat cheese, cream and butter like there is no tomorrow and I feel great on it.

fat tends to give food it's flavour...remove the fat = no flavour. Remove the flavour and you have to repalce it to make it palatable. So while I'm eating my good quality fat...you are eating E numbers up the ying yang. E numbers are more proven carcinogens than fat. Have a look at something called MSG (mono sodium glutamate). It's in loads of food. Carageenan and Disulphame K...they're good ones too. All of them rubbish but in loads of the food you eat.

If it's refined and manufactured...whatever it is...it's no good for you.

My advice would be to eat local produce, ensure it's seasonal and if you can't get local and have to go to a supermarket then either buy the finest stuff or buy organic. Stay away from 'low fat' foods. Please.

Anyway, have banged on far too much again. Sorry.

JB x

[Lynn]

If it's refined and manufactured...whatever it is...it's no good for you.

My advice would be to eat local produce, ensure it's seasonal and if you can't get local and have to go to a supermarket then either buy the finest stuff or buy organic.

Why do we seem to have such a poor range of fresh fruit and veg available in supermarkets in the UK? I was recently in Spain and the range of good fruit and veg was great - and it all tasted much better.

Some local organic farmers can arrange regular deliveries of seasonal vegs, which can be useful.

[Clueless]

I eat when I am hungry but mainly have either 2 or 3 meals a day, I always have breakfast, sometimes skip lunch and have my tea ~7

[Aleks]

loads of stuff about saturated fat

I'm definitely not as enthusiastic as JB about saturated fat....
but agree that in general fats and oils are far better for you than processsed carbs. Most of my clients' diets are really low in fats because we've been told for years that they are bad for you. Certainly in the sphere I work almost all practitioners suggest that their clients consume more fats and oils than usual. There has been evidence recently showing that low fat diets have a large part to play in depression...and certainly in my experience increasing omegas 3-6-9 alleviates the symptoms.

[Double Trouble]

There has been evidence recently showing that low fat diets have a large part to play in depression.

That's really weird you said that. I was feeling really depressed up until a few minutes ago. My depression suddenly vanished when I ordered a large Pizza.

Seriously though, I do feel better when I've eaten something naughty, especially if I have been good all week. A little of what you fancy and all that...

[Astro]

I'm definitely not as enthusiastic as JB about saturated fat....
but agree that in general fats and oils are far better for you than processsed carbs. Most of my clients' diets are really low in fats because we've been told for years that they are bad for you. Certainly in the sphere I work almost all practitioners suggest that their clients consume more fats and oils than usual. There has been evidence recently showing that low fat diets have a large part to play in depression...and certainly in my experience increasing omegas 3-6-9 alleviates the symptoms.

I've never been one to swallow everything the government says.

Remember the eggs fiasco? One minute eggs are good, then it's eggs are bad, now they are good again - that was to do with chlostreal, it was bad. Now, they say there are 2 types, one good, one bad.

I have been reading about rationing in WW2.
Beef dripping was a huge favourite then - now labelled as heart attack food.
They ate loads of bread and jam. (bread was not rationed) - it was wholemeal though, and apparently a grey colour.
Milk was drunk a lot. Suet was popular too and Spam from the USA. Fried spam fritters with chips was common.
I suppose they didn't eat enough of it to get fat.

In the 1930's some children only ate 5 days a week and getting nothing to eat 2 days a week in the East End of London, due to poverty. (hence ricketts). The war brought food 7 days a week, plus a cooked school meal.

[Astro]

I've just ordered some digital 'fat measuring calipers'. I think they'll probably give the best indication of actually 'fat' loss!

You measure how thick your rolls of flab are Although, I can't seem to find what the optimum thickness is? Anyone know? And does it differ on different parts of the body (I know my fat does for sure )

It recommends (for women) to measure an inch above you right hip, your thigh (although it doesn't say where) and the back of you arm (tricep area)

This is them, they come with some sort of digital tape meaduse too (although, how hard is it to measure with a normal one? )

The old saying is "If you can pinch more than an inch", you are too fat.

That's really weird you said that. I was feeling really depressed up until a few minutes ago. My depression suddenly vanished when I ordered a large Pizza.

Seriously though, I do feel better when I've eaten something naughty, especially if I have been good all week. A little of what you fancy and all that...

The old saying is "A moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips".

[SteveK]

Yes you are exactly right, the WHO does suggest a diet low in saturated fat...

But in response, has it helped reduce the rising incedence of Heart Disease, Diabetes, Hypertension et al?

No.

If you would like to read more about all the good nutritional information have a look at Westonaprice. Not sure if it's a .org or .uk

The reason that the WHO advice hasn't worked is that we have been too busy stuffing our faces with chips, crisps, pizza & burgers to notice.

I've just had a look at the Westonaprice website (it's .org); and it doesn't seem to correlate with what you are recommending. You strongly recommend minimising all carbs, whilst the Weston A. Price philosophy is to minimise all processed carbs, but unprocessed carbs are to be encouraged as part of a balanced diet. This bit of the Weston A. Price seemed in line with mainstream thinking, and seems emminently reasonable. (The bits about biodynamic farming seemed less plausible though). Why should I be minimising my unprocessed carb intake, if that's something I'm evolutionally predisposed to consuming?

If it's refined and manufactured...whatever it is...it's no good for you.

My advice would be to eat local produce, ensure it's seasonal and if you can't get local and have to go to a supermarket then either buy the finest stuff or buy organic. Stay away from 'low fat' foods. Please.

No problem with recommending the local good quality stuff (although please be aware that "locally" produced isn't necessarily more environmentally friendly than supermarket food; it's not just the distance that food has travelled, but also how efficiently it has been transported).

8. Water is good...obviously. About 2ltrs per day is adequate, with another ltr per hour of hard exercise. Sports hydration drinks - rubbish. They turn the body acidic which leaches calcium out of bones to redress the acid-alkali balance. Don't bother with powerade, lucozade or any other ade, water is the daddy. If you want flavour add a pinch of salt and squeeze some fresh lemon or orange juice into it. hey presto an isotonic sports drink.

I'm also genuinely interested to hear the reasoning behind this previous posting- can you explain this please?

[Mezzosoprano]

Stay away from 'low fat' foods. Please.

x

Eh?!??! You mean I've spent the last 20 odd years drinking Diet Coke and eating low fat yogurt... and still getting heavier... and I didn't need to!!?!?!

How can that be? I'm confused... and round

ps - I lost a 1lb this week too!! That means I've lost 7lbs since I started over 4 months ago... slow but steady wins the race!!

[Gav]

I don't know if this has been covered already, but I'm too lazy to read the whole thread

Anyway, try doing a food and drink diary for a week or two.
Don't cheat, record everything, down to that 1 sweet that you nabbed from your kids, that sneaky mouthful of dinner you pinched before you served it, every glass of squash... you get the idea.
If you're anything like me, you'll be shocked at how much crap you eat without realising it. For me, it was a simple matter of either just cutting out the crap or replacing it with something better. The pounds just fell off. I've gone from 14 stone 2, to 13 stone 1 with little or no effort thanks to the diary.



He said after eating Indian, KFC and pizza over the weekend.

[Dizzy]

I don't know if this has been covered already, but I'm too lazy to read the whole thread

Anyway, try doing a food and drink diary for a week or two.
Don't cheat, record everything, down to that 1 sweet that you nabbed from your kids, that sneaky mouthful of dinner you pinched before you served it, every glass of squash... you get the idea.
If you're anything like me, you'll be shocked at how much crap you eat without realising it. For me, it was a simple matter of either just cutting out the crap or replacing it with something better. The pounds just fell off. I've gone from 14 stone 2, to 13 stone 1 with little or no effort thanks to the diary.



He said after eating Indian, KFC and pizza over the weekend.

Well Done Gav

Keeping a food diary is a great way of making you aware of everything that you eat down to last mouthful and it is surprising how much you can eat without realising it . It is also a good way of finding out when in the day you are making the mistakes (like when you are sitting down watching tv or when you are eating while making the meal).

When I was doing my degree, I had to do a project for a week where I had to collect everything that I ate in a huge pot to analyse. This meant that everytime I ate something, a copy of it went into this pot. At the end of the week, we had to bring it into University and mush it all up to analyse everything from how many calories were consumed to how much alcohol was in there (I was a student! ). If the food diary still has no effect on your diet then this certainly will!! . It really made me physically look at what I was eating and made me aware of what I was eating.

EDIT: Almost forgot - Well Done Lory too

[Beowulf]

I'm male and Quite broad built and 6ft Tall.

When I was in College I was 12st

I went to University and dropped to 10st (combination Lack of food and contracting the beijing flu .. I was eating every second day .. on a good week!)

I left university and went back to 12st

I started working and slowly over the years went from 12st to 15st

Recently I dropped from 15st to just under 14st

Now I'm floating around the 14st 10lb mark.

yes I'm overweight but I feel an order of magnitude healthier than I did when I was 10st

I really want to get back down to 13st if I can.. I'll try the food diary idea.. but I'm notoriously bad at keeping these things.. My main problem is Zero willpower / staying power.

[Dizzy]

I've just ordered some digital 'fat measuring calipers'. I think they'll probably give the best indication of actually 'fat' loss!

You measure how thick your rolls of flab are Although, I can't seem to find what the optimum thickness is? Anyone know? And does it differ on different parts of the body (I know my fat does for sure )

It recommends (for women) to measure an inch above you right hip, your thigh (although it doesn't say where) and the back of you arm (tricep area)

This is them, they come with some sort of digital tape meaduse too (although, how hard is it to measure with a normal one? )

The best and most accurate way of measuring body fat percentage is stepping into a huge machine called the 'Bod Pod' which uses a method called air displacement plethysmography. These machines are expensive however and I believe that there are only 3 in the UK, all at Universities (I think there is one at Kings and one at London Metropolitan University). As this is not an option, the most convenient methods of estimating fat percentage tends to come from measurements like waist circumference and skinfold measurements like the calipers. It measures the different layers of the skin and the layer of subcutaneous fat that lies on top. This is quite hard to get as you need to pinch the skin away from the muscle and can be quite uncomfortable. The measures can be hard to get at on your own so you may need someone there to actually take the skin measurement. These measures can be taken from four sites around the body:

Tricep: Keeping your elbow bent, someone needs to pinch the skin at the mid upper arm level of the tricep (back of arm)
Bicep: Keeping elbow straight, someone needs to pinch the skin at the mid upper arm level of the bicep (front of arm)
Subscapular: Just below your scapula on your back, measured in a 45 degee angle.
Waist: Measure 1cm above the tip of your hip bone in your waistline. Measured horizontally with the subject breathing gently.

The calculation is then done using the Siri equation and the fat percentage can be calculated. The ideal fat percentage for women over 30 is 25%.

Hope that helps.

[Clueless]

The best and most accurate way of measuring body fat percentage is stepping into a huge machine called the 'Bod Pod' which uses a method called air displacement plethysmography. These machines are expensive however and I believe that there are only 3 in the UK, all at Universities (I think there is one at Kings and one at London Metropolitan University). As this is not an option, the most convenient methods of estimating fat percentage tends to come from measurements like waist circumference and skinfold measurements like the calipers. It measures the different layers of the skin and the layer of subcutaneous fat that lies on top. This is quite hard to get as you need to pinch the skin away from the muscle and can be quite uncomfortable. The measures can be hard to get at on your own so you may need someone there to actually take the skin measurement. These measures can be taken from four sites around the body:

Tricep: Keeping your elbow bent, someone needs to pinch the skin at the mid upper arm level of the tricep (back of arm)
Bicep: Keeping elbow straight, someone needs to pinch the skin at the mid upper arm level of the bicep (front of arm)
Subscapular: Just below your scapula on your back, measured in a 45 degee angle.
Waist: Measure 1cm above the tip of your hip bone in your waistline. Measured horizontally with the subject breathing gently.

The calculation is then done using the Siri equation and the fat percentage can be calculated. The ideal fat percentage for women over 30 is 25%.

Hope that helps.

Losy as well as the method described by Dizzy above there is a the BMI (Body Mass Index) clicky

thought as the website says its is fairly inaccurate and doesn't take into account Muscle Mass (which is heavier than fat) but its a quick way to find out what you are before pulling and pinching

[Jive Brummie]

Right, very briefly, beacause I'm at work.

Sports drinks....Contain lots of sugar i.e. Lucozade etc. They are also carbonated....this causes the acidity within the body. Don't ask me how...I'm not a biologist or a food scientist...I'm a PT.

It will leach calcium (A massively underated mineral within the body) and if you want major scare tactics...could lead to osteoporosis.

The reason the Tour Du France boys 'drink' sports drinks...they probably sponsor them...It'd also be worth investigatin to see if the drink in the bottle is waht it says it is outside the bottle.

And finally...low fat = low taste. The flavour will have been removed. They put in loads of additives to make them taste better...most of which are sugars. Excess sugar is stored as fat. So diet drinks, low fat cheese, milk etc...pretty useless.

Keep it going though. A healthy lifestyle consists of healthy eating combined with regular vigorous exercise.

I should be charging 40 pound an hour for this stuff!

All the best JB x

[Jhutch]

Right, very briefly, beacause I'm at work.

Sports drinks....Contain lots of sugar i.e. Lucozade etc. They are also carbonated....this causes the acidity within the body. Don't ask me how...I'm not a biologist or a food scientist...I'm a PT.

It will leach calcium (A massively underated mineral within the body) and if you want major scare tactics...could lead to osteoporosis.

The reason the Tour Du France boys 'drink' sports drinks...they probably sponsor them...It'd also be worth investigatin to see if the drink in the bottle is waht it says it is outside the bottle.

And finally...low fat = low taste. The flavour will have been removed. They put in loads of additives to make them taste better...most of which are sugars. Excess sugar is stored as fat. So diet drinks, low fat cheese, milk etc...pretty useless.

Keep it going though. A healthy lifestyle consists of healthy eating combined with regular vigorous exercise.

I should be charging 40 pound an hour for this stuff!

All the best JB x

I have never actually liked drinking fizzy sports drinks while exercising - the fizziness can make your stomach feel a bit off. I dont know what TdF cyclists take but my friends who did a lot of cycling normally drank this

Science in Sport Go Sports Drink from The Outdoor Shop

which is none fizzy as far as i can remember.

The acid in (some?) sports drinks can also damage the enamel on your teeth

[Astro]

Right, very briefly, beacause I'm at work.

Sports drinks....Contain lots of sugar i.e. Lucozade etc. They are also carbonated....this causes the acidity within the body. Don't ask me how...I'm not a biologist or a food scientist...I'm a PT.

It will leach calcium (A massively underated mineral within the body) and if you want major scare tactics...could lead to osteoporosis.

The reason the Tour Du France boys 'drink' sports drinks...they probably sponsor them...It'd also be worth investigatin to see if the drink in the bottle is waht it says it is outside the bottle.

I bet they throw the contents out and refil the sponsors bottle with the cyclists own preference.

And finally...low fat = low taste. The flavour will have been removed. They put in loads of additives to make them taste better...most of which are sugars. Excess sugar is stored as fat. So diet drinks, low fat cheese, milk etc...pretty useless.

Keep it going though. A healthy lifestyle consists of healthy eating combined with regular vigorous exercise.

I should be charging 40 pound an hour for this stuff!

All the best JB x

I have never actually liked drinking fizzy sports drinks while exercising - the fizziness can make your stomach feel a bit off. I dont know what TdF cyclists take but my friends who did a lot of cycling normally drank this

Science in Sport Go Sports Drink from The Outdoor Shop

which is none fizzy as far as i can remember.

The acid in (some?) sports drinks can also damage the enamel on your teeth

I posted about carbonated drinks, including carbonated spring water(which gives me a raging thirst) being detrimental to health and quite a few forumites jumped on me and said I was talking a load of rubbish. It was on a thread called "Tips for keeping cool on these hot days".

[Aleks]

I posted about carbonated drinks, including carbonated spring water(which gives me a raging thirst) being detrimental to health and quite a few forumites jumped on me and said I was talking a load of rubbish. It was on a thread called "Tips for keeping cool on these hot days".

I agree with you.

Going back to what JB said about the body becoming acidic....I don't have time to post the exact mechanics now but if you look up what happens when carbs/sugars are broken down in the body ready for absorption of nutrients, a large part of what remains is acid/acid forming substances...(which is the reason sugary foods cause tooth decay - it's the acid created in the mouth when amylase(?) breaks the sugar down that causes it)

[Dizzy]

Right, very briefly, beacause I'm at work.

Sports drinks....Contain lots of sugar i.e. Lucozade etc. They are also carbonated....this causes the acidity within the body. Don't ask me how...I'm not a biologist or a food scientist...I'm a PT.

To be honest, I am not going to comment on whether sports drinks are good or bad because I don't know enough about them to validate my answer but I will say that they tend to be carbonated because the gas allows the nutrients (i.e. sugar, sodium, potassium etc.) to be absorbed into the bloodstream a lot quicker than if they were flat drinks and also makes the drinker feel a lot more comfortable as a flat drink would make them bloated, which is not what they want while doing sport.