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Thread: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by nebula View Post
    Would you be happy if your children smoked? (if you have any)
    I would show her HOW to smoke, exactly as my Mum has done - and will advise of the bad things that can happen - including cancer, asthmas, etc, etc.
    I layed in bed last night pondering this.

    How exactly did your mum Teach you?

    Did she show you how to inhale the smoke deeply into your lungs, to get the most out of it, the biggest high and value for money etc?

    Or did she suggest that you puff it out, without inhaling, that way, you get to 'look cool' without so many of the harmful effects?

    Please enlighten me, I'm fascinated!



    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    In that case, may I suggest starting a new thread on "Banning alcohol"?


    I don't understand people are trying to justify smoking, by equating it to drinking?

    Deflection tactics?
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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I layed in bed last night pondering this.
    Good grief, Lory...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I don't understand people are trying to justify smoking, by equating it to drinking?
    Well, there are a lot of analogies - both bad habits, both bad for you, both addictive, both legal-but-heavily-taxed....

    FWIW, I suspect that we'll see more and more "anti-drinking" measures coming in - if only to appear tough on the whole anti-social issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by drathzel View Post
    AFAIK Only one or two people at my venues drink anyway!
    There you go then, nothing to lose. Stand up for your principles, girl!

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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I layed in bed last night pondering this.
    Cluck Cluck

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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    pah, nothing wrong with a couple of glasses of wine when your dancing. Improves mine no end.

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Cluck Cluck
    I always get stuck on that word..
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    Registered User Daisy Chain's Avatar
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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    I really appreciate smoke free environments (both outside and inside). In fact it cost me several thousand pounds to move house away from 24h a day chainsmokers in the nextdoor garden. I couldn't use my garden or open the windows at the back of my house because of the constant smoke - they were even out there puffing in the dark!

    I now have a beautiful peaceful, smoke free garden where I can sit, potter around and dry my washing. Should any smokers move in next door, I plan to buy an industrial fan to blow the offending fumes back in their direction.

    Daisy

    (A Non-Smoking Little FLower)

    PS I've never smoked. At the age of 8, I was taken to see my favourite uncle who was dying from lung cancer. Maybe every child should experience something similar - before they're sucked in to the smokers' world.
    Last edited by Daisy Chain; 3rd-July-2007 at 12:43 PM.

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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    I've just got back from a meeting in central london (yes..I'm still working) and it shocked me how many people were just hanging around street corners, having a fag. What's the point? It was raining & windy. Where's the fun in that?

    I passed a hotel at one point and there must have been about 20 people outside, smoking. Annoyingly, they took up the whole path and I had to walk straight through them, inhaling their smoke and making my clothes and hair smell as vile as they do.

    Nebula. I understand that the smell of booze annoys you, but drinking a pint of lager or a glass of wine has no passive effect, so therefore is not relevent.

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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I've just got back from a meeting in central london (yes..I'm still working) and it shocked me how many people were just hanging around street corners, having a fag. What's the point? It was raining & windy. Where's the fun in that?

    I passed a hotel at one point and there must have been about 20 people outside, smoking. Annoyingly, they took up the whole path and I had to walk straight through them, inhaling their smoke and making my clothes and hair smell as vile as they do.

    Nebula. I understand that the smell of booze annoys you, but drinking a pint of lager or a glass of wine has no passive effect, so therefore is not relevent.
    did i tell you u smell awful today sis. smoke ridden mare. xx

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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    How exactly did your mum Teach you?

    Please enlighten me, I'm fascinated!
    Details, Nebula...Details...!

    I've bribed my kids. Told them if they manage not to start smoking before the age of 17, I'll buy them a car. If I do catch them smoking, before they are earning their own money, I would stop every penny of pocket money....for ever...!


    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I don't understand people are trying to justify smoking, by equating it to drinking? Deflection tactics?
    What else could it be? A smoker might as well say "I know my smoking is offensive, but so is your necklace...I don't like that colour"

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Have just been catching up on this thread having been away this weekend. Have to say that as a non-smoker who is also highly anti-smoking (but has always hidden the fact so as not to cause offence) I am so thankful for this legislation. Smokers have had the freedom to smoke for centuries – now it’s the turn of those who want to breathe easily.

    My grandfather and my mother both smoked, and it shortened both their lives – my mother died at 58 from a smoking-related cancer (I was 22 at the time). Because of her smoking, I’ve always hated it and have never smoked, but am convinced that my tendency to wheeziness has been caused by passive smoking as a child. My father (who has never smoked) developed something called intermittent claudication in his leg (which causes severe pain if he walks more than a few dozen yards as the blood flow is restricted) a couple of years ago, and this has seriously impacted his mobility, which is a shame as he’s otherwise incredibly healthy and looks very young for his age (78). Before this started, he was going to the gym 3 times a week and had could have easily been mistaken, even medically, for someone 10-15 years younger. The only treatment could mean him losing the leg if it goes wrong; he’s not prepared to take that risk so he’s stuck with it. A while back, he told me, with some trepidation, that his doctor thought it had been caused by 30 years passive smoking. To say that I was angry for quite some time is an understatement.

    So I hope that you’ll understand if I don’t have any sympathy for these so called “rights” that smokers seem to think that they have. The right to life, and to health, is more important. This isn’t just a case of “oh it smells bad and is unpleasant”. Smoking, passively or actively, shortens some lives and ruins others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Oh, and another thing. Important distinction: use alcohol as it is intended to be enjoyed, and you will not suffer any ill effects (expectant women have to be more careful). Use tobacco as it is intended to be used and you are damaging your lungs and health from drag #1.
    The smoking of a single cigarette will affect my environment. The drinking of a single alcoholic drink will not. It is not the consumption of alcohol per se that causes the problems, it is the over-consumption which causes changes in behaviour in people. Sadly, I suspect that you’d have people out there picking fights even without getting drunk if that’s what they really want to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Well, the government could indeed theoretically pass a "no public drinking" law - similarly, a drinking ban wouldn't be a violation of anyone's rights, because no-one has a "right" to drink alcohol.
    I think that you’ll find that in some areas it is indeed illegal to drink alcohol in the street. I was quite surprised when Beo told me that this is the case in Aberdeen – you can’t take a bottle of wine with you on a picnic for example.

    I agree that anti-social drinking behaviour needs to be changed. I don’t think that completely banning it will work (it didn’t in the US prohibition era). It’s the “drinking culture” that needs to be changed.

    It is one of the things that I like about MJ – there isn’t a big culture of drinking heavily or smoking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Is it child abuse to smoke in front of children. ?

    I think it is and it should be made an abusive act.
    I agree. Primarily because it will affect their health. It may also encourage others to smoke (though it might have the opposite effect too, as it did with me). But also because it might discourage parents from smoking – and removing themselves from their children’s lives prematurely.

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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    I think that you’ll find that in some areas it is indeed illegal to drink alcohol in the street.
    Theres a bye law where I am too. So efforts are made to curb anti-social behaviour, alcohol is often the root of that. There is no connection to smoking though The US has similar laws, the stereotypical new york drunk with alcohol in a brown paper bag is due to the laws on not drinking in the street, if you are not openly flaunting the law i.e. by hiding the fact its alcohol by putting it in a bag, you are not arrested. (which is slightly odd but then its illegal in the US for you to even have an opened bottle of alcohol in your car*)

    *by this , i mean something that contains alcohol, not alcohol itself

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    Registered User nebula's Avatar
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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I've just got back from a meeting in central london (yes..I'm still working) and it shocked me how many people were just hanging around street corners, having a fag. What's the point? It was raining & windy. Where's the fun in that?

    I passed a hotel at one point and there must have been about 20 people outside, smoking. Annoyingly, they took up the whole path and I had to walk straight through them, inhaling their smoke and making my clothes and hair smell as vile as they do.
    And where else could they have gone?

    Nebula. I understand that the smell of booze annoys you, but drinking a pint of lager or a glass of wine has no passive effect, so therefore is not relevent.
    It does for me. Pint of lager stinks. Also, it ruins your coordination - and most of people will think nothing of driving after just 1 pint. Road accident statistics I will not relay to you, sufficient to say, more than half are attributed to drink-driving.
    As with everything, you might argue that we are talking about excesses here. Exactly my point. You drink in moderation - nothing's bad going to come out of it (fingers crossed, not whilst you are behind the wheel). I am not advocating banishing the ban - I am as much for stopping smoking in the eateries as the next person. But if I am sitting on the bench in the park 100 yards from you having a fag, please don't tell me you are going to run screaming in the other direction - that's ridiculous.
    So please be content with what you've got and stop demanding the total ban - which is what I am ranting about. Rant over.

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    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by nebula View Post
    ... Road accident statistics I will not relay to you, sufficient to say, more than half are attributed to drink-driving.
    ...
    While alcohol impaired drivers are indeed a big menace, and a signficant cause of accidents, I haven't seen recent statistics suggesting anything approaching that proportion in the UK.

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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Personally I think the smoking ban in the best thing since sliced bread (that only arrived in my home town 2 years ago.. along with that newfangled electrickery thingamimacallit!)

    Rights of smokers? Please exercise your rights where it won't affect others. I have no problems if you smoke your bleeding black lungs out in the nicotine stained comfort of your own homes. Please smoke away, kipper yourself as much as you like. I'm not telling you what you should and shouldn't do to yourself.

    But that's the problem with smoking you see.. you don't keep it to yourselves. yeah you get your hit, your high, your fix, satisfy your craving etc (hmm am I over doing the drug using terminology here?) but all those billowing clouds of noxious toxic vapours spread out and people who DON'T want to smoke end up doing so if they want to or not.

    I was an asthmatic kid, but my sister was an order of magnitude worse than me. We were on a family holiday many years ago (I was still in secondary school at the time) and we were in a "club" venue watching a show. Note this was a non smoking venue for the most part but had smoking areas (yeah like smoke is specially trained not to drift past a "no smoking beyond this point" sign ) And we were in the no smoking area well away from the smoking area.

    This .. Arthur Daley / Del boy wannabe came over and sat in front of us and pulled out the biggest fattest cigar you have ever seen and lit up (Obviously he was working on the assumption the bigger the cigar the fatter the cat.. personally I though it was the fact that he was compensating for a small.. .. erm... IQ)

    My sister was wheezing a bit, so my Dad leaned over and pointed out the fact that this was the non smoking area and could he please extinguish his cigar. At which point he said "No !" and blew a big lung full of smoke over our table.

    This triggered an all out Asthma attack in my sister. Who had to be rushed to hospital and put on a nebuliser cutting our holiday short (a small price to pay to ensure she was ok) While my sis was gasping for breath this "gentleman" got up from his seat and rolled his eyes (Yeah what a terrible fuss my sister was making.. spoiling his good prime cigar time!) She was hospital for three days and on oxygen and high doses of asthma drugs and steroids.. all because some obnoxious fat cat wanted to show how rich and successful he was my sister was in serious medical strife and we lost our holiday.

    I drink (occasionally) and my waste product from that is urine.. If I went round the bar urinating on all the smokers do you think they would complain? Probably! Some people take harder substances, when they're snorting their particular brand of drug do they inject and spike the drinks of everyone around then? no thank heavens for that !.. But smokers, with their "I'm all right jack who gives a toss what you think" attitude quite happily force us to breathe in their excess smoke and waste products.

    Well, here's some news for you.. NOT IN MY AIRSPACE you don't buddy !! If I saw someone smoking in a public place I would revel .. YES REVEL in dobbing them in.. clapping in glee when they got a nice hefty on the spot fine. And you can put that in your pipe and smoke it.

    Smoking intolerant and proud of it and for damn good reason too.

    So when people talk about their rights to smoke.. what about my right to clean air.. air that won't trigger asthma , air that won't trigger cancers? We have pollution from industry and cars.. that's bad enough thank you very much!

    Do what ever you like in the privacy of your own home. You can smoke until you cough up enough tar to fill every pothole in every road in the UK for all I care. Smoke until your legs drop off from bad circulation. I really don't mind. But keep it to yourselves.
    Last edited by Beowulf; 3rd-July-2007 at 11:45 PM.

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    Registered User nebula's Avatar
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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970 View Post
    (hmm am I over doing the drug using terminology here?)
    Yes, you are

    YES REVEL in dobbing them in.. clapping in glee when they got a nice hefty on the spot fine.
    Next time you have a drink and I see you, I'll be SO HAPPY to shop you when you get in the car . The whole discussion was about the moderation, and choice. Or so I thought until read yours - are you always this angry?
    Last edited by David Bailey; 4th-July-2007 at 07:45 AM. Reason: Removed personal abuse.

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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by nebula View Post
    Next time you have a drink and I see you, I'll be SO HAPPY to shop you when you get in the car . The whole discussion was about the moderation, and choice. Or so I thought until read yours - are you always this angry?
    Please do.. (a) I'm practically Tea total. I drink oh once a blue moon. (b).. i don't drive so that's made me laugh (c) Were A and B not the case then I am quite capable of obeying the law and not drink driving. I concur.. if I saw anyone drinking and driving I'd shop them in too.. Well done that person

    As I said, I'm not stopping you smoking. It's a free world for you to do what ever you like.. be that smoking, knife swallowing, chainsaw juggling or any other hobby.

    And no.. I'm a fairly middle of the road sort of guy .. But then I think I have every right.. it was some obnoxious better than thou smoker who nearly killed my sister. I have every right to be bitter.. or are you denying me my rights at free speech too?

    Am all for the ban, long may it continue.. and if they ban drinking coke or wearing of loud shirts in public (really my only two vices) then I dare say I'd be somewhat annoyed but would would go along with the ruling and not think i was better than the law.

    hmm.. nebula.. isn't that a cloud of hot interstellar gas?

    just be glad I didn't pick the medical definition.. that would be me taking the p*ss
    Last edited by David Bailey; 4th-July-2007 at 07:50 AM. Reason: Removed reference to personal abuse

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    Registered User nebula's Avatar
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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970 View Post
    But then I think I have every right.. it was some obnoxious better than thou smoker who nearly killed my sister. I have every right to be bitter.. or are you denying me my rights at free speech too?
    No, but it seems that you are denying mine. FYI, I have just as much right to be bitter about drinkers, but won't divulge my family history here - I think we've had enough info from you.

    Am all for the ban, long may it continue.. and if they ban drinking coke or wearing of loud shirts in public (really my only two vices) then I dare say I'd be somewhat annoyed but would would go along with the ruling and not think i was better than the law.
    If you'd have read the posts, you would see that I said nothing against the law, only that it is passed for use inside the buildings ONLY. Your story also occured inside the building, as far as I can see? The outside areas are still for use of other people - including teetotalers, smokers, drinkers, and dog owners. I would also add that being quite strong with your OWN opinions and passing them on as the truth of highest authority is not counted as a compliment in my book.

    hmm.. nebula.. isn't that a cloud of hot interstellar gas?

    just be glad I didn't pick the medical definition.. that would be me taking the p*ss
    SO GLAD (bowing head down in gratitude)

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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    playing devils advocate here.. lest anyone say I'm one sided.

    I see why smokers are complaining. They can no longer go out for a sociable drink with their friends without braving the elements outside. They are made to look like social lepers and the whole thing makes them out to be the Bad guys.

    Sure a lot of people smoke and some smoke more than others, some smoke slightly and some chain smoke. Lots of people drink, some have a tipple of sherry at Christmas and some are never sober.

    I wouldn't want an all out ban. it would drive smokers underground. Look at prohibition in the states. Just think of all those smoke joints that would spring up. And also as nebula and co stated, it's their right and damn right. I would defend anyone's rights.

    However, before it sounds like I'm contradicting myself too much here. I still think the rights of the non smokers outweigh those of the smokers.

    If they could invent a cigarette that didn't cause passive smoking to everyone around, or trigger asthma etc then I wouldn't have any problems. It's not as if the smell really bothers ME is it

    Sadly smoking is an "area of effect" pastime. it affects the smoker and people round them. This is a sore subject .. as my previous post shows.. with me and I apologise for my abruptness. I think the smoking ban is fair and correct and as long as pubs and clubs give smokers correct facilities outside away from the rest if us then I have no problem with it.

    Besides.. look at all the lovely taxes we get from smoking and alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by nebula View Post
    No, but it seems that you are denying mine. FYI, I have just as much right to be bitter about drinkers, but won't divulge my family history here - I think we've had enough info from you.
    Quite right too.. I hate heavy drinkers .. And As I said above I see where you're coming from. Some people want to smoke.. it's their prerogative. If I was in the position to ban smoking completely I wouldn't. Just as I wouldn't ban drinking. I would however put stronger penalties for drink driving.

    Quote Originally Posted by nebula View Post
    If you'd have read the posts, you would see that I said nothing against the law, only that it is passed for use inside the buildings ONLY. Your story also occurred inside the building, as far as I can see? The outside areas are still for use of other people - including teetotalers, smokers, drinkers, and dog owners. I would also add that being quite strong with your OWN opinions and passing them on as the truth of highest authority is not counted as a compliment in my book.

    I didn't say at any time I was right and everyone else was wrong. Yes, granted I worded it a little stronger than I should have, for which I apologise.. perhaps my other vice (other than excessive coke drinking and eye ball searing shirt wearing) is a short fuse. You are as entitled to your opinion as I am mine. Neither is wrong and neither is right.

    Many people died in my family from drink problems too.

    And yes I agree Smoking outside a pub is far from idea.. we still have to run the gauntlet of smokers to get into the pub. The ban isn't ideal but it's a good start.

    I'm sorry if you have to stand outside if you want to puff.. as much as I dislike smokers I'm not on an anti smoking vendetta here. (I actually watched and was very amused by the movie "thank you for smoking" ) But personally I like being able to go to a pub and drink (coke or my rare single glass of magners!) without coming out wheezy or runny eyed.

    I'm sorry, but that's how it is. I like my clean fresh aired pubs.

    I may not like people smoking in parks etc but there's nowt I can do about that.. short of carrying a fire extinguisher with me that is (only kidding!!!)
    Last edited by Beowulf; 4th-July-2007 at 12:45 AM.

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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by nebula View Post
    Next time you have a drink and I see you, I'll be SO HAPPY to shop you when you get in the car .
    As I'm sure, would Beo himself

    The whole discussion was about the moderation, and choice.
    You're still not getting it : non-smokers do not have "choice" when smokers are around.

    he outside areas are still for use of other people - including teetotalers, smokers, drinkers, and dog owners.
    Indeed but drunk and disorderly is a crime, not cleaning up after your dog is a crime and teetotalers don't do anything to affect other people. The only offensive people with no punishment for affecting others( with their foul fumes ) in your list are smokers . All we can get them on is dropping cigarette butts ; £50 on the spot fine with lots of people to police it - thats what i say

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    Re: Puffers defy day one of smoking ban

    Quote Originally Posted by nebula View Post
    No, but it seems that you are denying mine. FYI, I have just as much right to be bitter about drinkers
    Isn't the question about 'justification' rather than 'right'?

    It seems fair to castigate 'all those who smoke in public' but only 'all those who drink in public to excess'

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