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Thread: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

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    B.O.G.O.F. fletch's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by janey View Post
    I agree that whatever we do we end up feeling very guilty & convinced we are doing the wrong thing!
    .





    Its such a balancing act, and you can never please everyone, I was told some years ago by a next door nabour, she felt sorry for my children because I worked full time, shame she didn't feel sorry for my children for having an alcoholic farther with several personality disorders that never worked.

    My life changed 3 years ago on the 31st of this month, I could never imagine at that time how things would turn out, you never know whats around the corner

    Having spent 18 years as a National Account manager for a large blue chip company, my job wasn't 9-5 I had to spend quite some time away from home, thats hard when the children were so young

    I now work Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday evenings and the children come with me, so no childcare costs, at one point I was paying £725 per month for childcare.

    Good luck with your decision, its such a tricky one.

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    Registered User Zara's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Missy D View Post
    My daughter is almost 14 now and I have worked on and off for 12 years now. Luckily I didnt have to get childcare as I was able to take her to work with me. My advice to you is to not earn more than £10,000 pa. I have worked over the last year and had also been receiving tax credits of £300 per month but because I get over £10,000 pa in April they stopped the tax credits completely as it went on 2005-2006 earning. I have been advised by a lone parent adviser and the Tax Credits people not to work or just work 16 hours. The whole system is *****.
    When I work I am about £80-£100 per week better off for 16 hours work. My advisor told me just to do 16 hours, whereas originally I wanted to do 20. If I were to do those four extra hours I would only get an £3.50 more!!! How crazy is that, the system is ****!


    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I believe that 'live-in nannys' (or aupairs) earn slightly less than that...

    If you have the room, it could be another option to consider?

    You'd get to keep your job (and everything which goes with it) but the kids can get up later and you wont be rushing round so much....

    Some house work duties would be taken care of too (thus giving you more 'quality' time with the kids) and you'd probably save money on baby sitting fees too.
    This is a really good idea, shame its not an option for Double Trouble. I think when Ive completed my degree and Ethans at school I will employ an aupair. They are relatively cheap and help with household chores so when you do get home from work theres more of an opportunity for quality time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    DT, one thing to consider is how long it will take to be eligible for benefits? I don't think you can chuck in work and wander down to the benefits office and have them give you money the next day.
    When I gave up work I became immediately eligible for benefits, it does take a while to go through, but you can also claim for back-pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    My mum worked when I was young. I absolutely hated it & to this day I remember the horrible feeling of knowing my mum wouldn't be there for sports days etc, seeing all my friends running up to their mums and dads after their races for a big hug when I couldn't.

    Because of this I always take time off work for anything like sports day. My boss has no choice but to accept I take more time off than most, and I'm sure my career development is compromised because of it.
    Your kids will remember and thank you for that when they are older

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post



    Its such a balancing act, and you can never please everyone, I was told some years ago by a next door nabour, she felt sorry for my children because I worked full time, shame she didn't feel sorry for my children for having an alcoholic farther with several personality disorders that never worked.
    Those sort of unwanted comments from people make me so angry!

    Zara xxxxxxx

  3. #43
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I believe that 'live-in nannys' (or aupairs) earn slightly less than that...
    Probably more like £350 / week. Plus, you've got to pay the other stuff - NI, Tax, holidays, etc. It all adds up. I don't think you'd get much for £300 per week all in.

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    Registered User Zara's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Aupairs start at £60 a week but are not expected to work for more than 25 hours.

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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    I vote for stay at home and bake cakes.



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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zara View Post
    Aupairs start at £60 a week but are not expected to work for more than 25 hours.
    £60 a week? For 25 hours work? Seems a little unlikely - not to mention illegal...

    Proper nannies cost around £350 a week I reckon, based on some of the adverts. Depends on location of course. But even if they were only (say) £250 a week basic, you'd still probably have to pay an effective £50+ per week in admin costs.

    So I can't see it being cheaper.

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    £60 a week? For 25 hours work? Seems a little unlikely - not to mention illegal...

    Proper nannies cost around £350 a week I reckon, based on some of the adverts. Depends on location of course. But even if they were only (say) £250 a week basic, you'd still probably have to pay an effective £50+ per week in admin costs.
    Don't forget, they live-in and consume your food. Obviously this offsets some of the costs.
    I remember a friend of mine had a 'demi-pair' who was studying part time and did about 16 hours a week baby-sitting..(all their children were of school age and her studies coinsided with their school holidays) I don't believe they had to pay her at all.
    The advantages for the demi-pair is living with a family, with no accomodation costs and meals provided.
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Interesting that we have ended up talking about working mothers not working fathers!! Big high horse of mine - apologies .

    I am a very fortunate single mum of three children (when the youngest was born, the oldest was 3 and a half and it was tough).

    I don't have family in Scotland and when on matty leave I felt remarkably isolated and lonely. I knew I wanted to go back to work and didn't view this as a particularly difficult dilema as men go back to work all the time! My ex is a teacher who came home at lunch times, got home by 4pm and had 13 weeks off a year. Additionally for years I earned more than he did and was more ambitious and work oriented than he which is why there was no dilemma.

    He also got massive social kudos for being at home with the children during the holidays when I had to work. For years this hacked me off!

    I am fortunate for many reasons now:
    • excellent job with flexible working arrangements
    • good pay (so I get very little child tax credit)
    • ex pays maintenance by direct debit on time and was generous in the settlement
    • ex sees the children every week and we have alternate weekends with the girls
    • I employ my ex's sis-in-law to do my childcare after school and most mornings I don't need to be in work until the girls are off to school
    • if I hadn't become single, I would not have discovered MJ


    What would make things easier:
    • a granny round the corner to bring me soup when I am poorly (the other week when I was ill, I didn't see another adult for 5 days!)
    • if Ceroc and Jive Addiction planned their weekenders around my childcare schedule!


    Some "research" was done a while back (sorry can't remember the reference) where older children were asked if they would prefer their mother (not father!) to stay at home. Not surprisingly the answer was yes. For goodness sake .... I still want my mummy to stay at home and do mummy things to make my life easier. However, human beings have to work if we want to eat. Local extended family is now rare so we use childcare - and if organisations like mine and parents work together we can ensure that it is good quality childcare. Don't believe that 1950's middle class idyll of the two parent family where mummy looks after the children. It has very rarely worked quite like that! In my case, I believe my girls will see their mummy working, being at home, playing, having fun and they will want to have the same sort of fulfilling life. That's not to say I wouldn't like a few more holidays or a shorter working week - I am only human!

    As an aside, I did have a stay at home mum who was unhappy and spent most of my childhood in bed depressed. I don't feel that was good for her or me.

    Everybody has different circumstances. Be happy and your children will be happy too. Don't let the anybody guilt trip you about your choice.

    for your choices DT

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    £60 a week? For 25 hours work? Seems a little unlikely - not to mention illegal...
    Take a look at this

    http://www.ome-a.org.uk/pdf/gnfg.pdf
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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Don't forget, they live-in and consume your food. Obviously this offsets some of the costs.
    Yeah, but there's this awkward "minimum wage" thing... IN other words, you have to pay them (roughly, including all proper expenses) £6 / hour.

    So obvously you have to be earning more than £6 / hour after tax to even consider it. Assuming a 35-hour week, plus 2 hours / day travel time, that works out at nearly £300 / week even on minimum wage - after tax.

    OK, fair enough, if they're only being paid for out-of-school hours that helps a lot - but I'd be surprised if you could find a live-in nanny who'd do that, when they could be earning twice as much doing a full-time job.

    Basically, childcare sucks - parents get no support from the government in this country (tax relief would be one obvious solution).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Yeah, but au pairs are not nannies - as it says:

    It should be understood that an au pair is not a trained nanny or housekeeper and her duties should be limited to general housework such as vacuum-cleaning, dusting, washing, ironing, making beds etc. ... Working mothers should organize extra help.
    In other words, au pairs are not appropriate. And anyway, you'd be nuts to trust your kids full-time care to a random unqualified teenager.

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Yeah, but au pairs are not nannies - as it says:


    In other words, au pairs are not appropriate. And anyway, you'd be nuts to trust your kids full-time care to a random unqualified teenager.
    Well you could say the same of babysitters, or relatives that look after the kids for you and even childminders didn't need any training until the recent law change.

    I suppose it depends on how old the children are and how long they'd need to be left in the au pairs charge?
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    Registered User Zara's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    £60 a week? For 25 hours work? Seems a little unlikely - not to mention illegal...

    Proper nannies cost around £350 a week I reckon, based on some of the adverts. Depends on location of course. But even if they were only (say) £250 a week basic, you'd still probably have to pay an effective £50+ per week in admin costs.

    So I can't see it being cheaper.
    Au pairs are unqualified, so are much cheaper for that reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Don't forget, they live-in and consume your food. Obviously this offsets some of the costs.
    I remember a friend of mine had a 'demi-pair' who was studying part time and did about 16 hours a week baby-sitting..(all their children were of school age and her studies coinsided with their school holidays) I don't believe they had to pay her at all.
    The advantages for the demi-pair is living with a family, with no accomodation costs and meals provided.


    I think the value of what most families would provide an aupair (accomodation, meals etc) would equate to more than minimum wage.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Yeah, but there's this awkward "minimum wage" thing... IN other words, you have to pay them (roughly, including all proper expenses) £6 / hour.

    So obvously you have to be earning more than £6 / hour after tax to even consider it. Assuming a 35-hour week, plus 2 hours / day travel time, that works out at nearly £300 / week even on minimum wage - after tax.

    OK, fair enough, if they're only being paid for out-of-school hours that helps a lot - but I'd be surprised if you could find a live-in nanny who'd do that, when they could be earning twice as much doing a full-time job.

    Basically, childcare sucks - parents get no support from the government in this country (tax relief would be one obvious solution).



    Yeah, but au pairs are not nannies - as it says:


    In other words, au pairs are not appropriate. And anyway, you'd be nuts to trust your kids full-time care to a random unqualified teenager.
    Unless you are God, then you are not qualified to make that judgement


    As was just discussed, aupairs do not provide full-time care.
    They are not random, but CRB checked with references and you meet and get to know them first.
    It would be optional weather you chose a teenager or not.

    There are pros and cons to whatever childcare you choose, for some an au pair is best for them and Im sure calling those parents 'nuts' would come across as quite offensive.

    Zara xxx

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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    I have a real problem taking from others...

    I know the gov gives away lots of cash, I have gone into huge debt when not working, but still never claim.

    I am all for NO gov handouts.

    Hard line, but I think you need to stand tall and have respect for yourself.

    Make your own way in this world and not live off the back of others hard work.

    I have had tough times where I have lived on beans and rice for months on end, but I have never taken from others.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Well you could say the same of babysitters,
    Assuming you mean childminders - they have to be seriously regulated, there's reams of qualifications, asessments and so on for them. They've been well-regulated for several years, I know that for a fact based on my own experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I suppose it depends on how old the children are and how long they'd need to be left in the au pairs charge?
    It seems fairly clear that the au pair is not a childminder or even a babysitter - that's just not part of her duties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zara View Post
    Au pairs are unqualified, so are much cheaper for that reason.
    Great - even if they were willing, there's no way I'd entrust my child to an unqualified person I didn't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zara View Post
    I think the value of what most families would provide an aupair (accomodation, meals etc) would equate to more than minimum wage.
    I don't - but it's irrelevant as au pairs do not do childminding. Childminders do childminding. That's why they're called, you know, childminders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zara View Post
    Unless you are God, then you are not qualified to make that judgement
    Errr... are you saying no-one apart from God is allowed to criticize anyone's choice of childcare arrangement? No-one told my local council that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zara View Post
    There are pros and cons to whatever childcare you choose, for some an au pair is best for them and Im sure calling those parents 'nuts' would come across as quite offensive.
    Nah. DT is nuts, so I'm sure she won't be offended.

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    Registered User Zara's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post

    I don't - but it's irrelevant as au pairs do not do childminding. Childminders do childminding. That's why they're called, you know, childminders?


    Errr... are you saying no-one apart from God is allowed to criticize anyone's choice of childcare arrangement? No-one told my local council that...


    Nah. DT is nuts, so I'm sure she won't be offended.
    What exactly do you think an aupair would do? They look after children. It seems very odd that you dont think that would be one of their duties.

    Criticizing is fine, making judgements upon people isnt. By saying someone is nuts for choosing an aupair would cause offensive to someone with an aupair.

    zara xx

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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Just so as it is clear, local councils have not regulated childcare services for many years. In England, Ofsted have the regulatory duty for most childcare (although CSCI regulates Care at Home Agencies who do supply some care for children) and in Scotland the Care Commission regulates all social care for children and adults (even independent hospitals and shortly dentists too!). Wales and Northern Ireland have their own but similar arrangements.

    Anybody looking for childcare, do your research, check out the service online and read the inspection reports. They are for you!

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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freudian Hips View Post
    Anybody looking for childcare, do your research, check out the service online and read the inspection reports. They are for you!
    The inspection reports are great, but in my case, my choices are limited in terms of childcare.

    Firstly, I HAVE to use a registered child minder, otherwise I will not qualify for working families tax credit against my childcare expenses (not that I would use an unregistered one anyway)

    Secondly, I have to use a childminder who's children, or the children she cares for, go to the same school as mine. It's not possible for them to be in 2 places at once.

    At my childrens school, there are only 2 registered childminders who could drop off and pick my kids up. Luckily one of them had spaces for all three of my kids and I had known her for a while before hand.

    I hate leaving them at the childminders. She's great and everything and my two youngest children don't mind being there, but my oldest son hates it. What can I do?

    If she decided to pack the job in...I'm f*cked anyway, so will have no choice but to give up work.

    The whole things a big fekkin' drag.

  18. #58
    Registered User Zuhal's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    I am a single father.

    I had care of two girls.

    I legitimately employed an aupair through an agency.

    It meant there was a second adult around to cope with all those things that conflict like job,school, dentist, bus strike etc.

    She lived as one of the family and shared a few duties around the place.
    She was not qualified so I could not claim child care costs but then I paid her pocket money, £70 pw her college fees (out of the kindness of my heart) and generally helped her out with matters english. Had her relatives to stay.

    Find the right person and the give and take aspect works fine. If they do not work out get the agency to send you another one.

    You have to have the room. Sympathy to those with a full house

    Zuhal

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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    I'm a single mum of 3 and have been for 14 years. the 2 eldest have grown up now & left. i have always worked but been lucky enough to be able to take them with me, otherwise i would never have been able to afford childcare. We were on benefits for a while, but there was still never enough money and we struggled. I was glad to work when they were finally all at school, and slowly slowly things got better, but sometimes they were so bad we had no food and friends would buy my weekly shopping or help towards a bill.

    Now things are better but I know they could change at any moment. I mainly work from home, which can be extremely lonely, but if everything went belly up, I'd happily settle for a job at the supermarket.

    The last proper holiday we had was in 1988, 2 weeks in Portugal. We did manage a week in cyprus in 2001 but i was so exhausted whilst the children were out I slept or cried. My only holidays now are the dance weekenders and even those are limited & I feel guilty because I haven't been able to afford to take my children on holiday, just the odd day out to the zoo or Macdonalds was their holiday treat.

    I have my self respect and I have done it on my own with as little help from the social as possible. My children are fantastic, my daughter got a first class honours in her degree, they are aware of what money means, it doesn't grow on trees, you can't have everything, you have to work for it & they never suffered from not having the designer trainers their friends had.

    Do what's best for you and your children, go on the social if you have to, but be aware of the boredom factor and work out whether you really would be better off finacially or otherwise.

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Work or stay at home? Whats the answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Assuming you mean childminders -
    No, I actually meant 'babysitters', the kind you call on when you need someone to look after your children when you have a night out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Firstly, I HAVE to use a registered child minder, otherwise I will not qualify for working families tax credit against my childcare expenses (not that I would use an unregistered one anyway)
    I didn't know that.

    So, a hypothetical question. What would happen, if your parents looked after them for you, would they have to become registered child minders, in order for you to claim tax credits?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuhal View Post
    It meant there was a second adult around to cope with all those things that conflict like job,school, dentist, bus strike etc.

    She lived as one of the family and shared a few duties around the place.
    She was not qualified so I could not claim child care costs but then I paid her pocket money,
    This is the kind of arrangement my friends have had.... the children were all of school age.
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