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Thread: Legal eagles and consumer rights ...

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    Registered User SuzyQ's Avatar
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    Legal eagles and consumer rights ...

    Just wondered if any of you were clued up about consumer rights etc.

    Sorry this is a boring and long tale of woe ... if you have no interest I suggest not reading any more as it is rather yawn-worthy!

    I am currently having my bathroom replaced. I purchased lots of the items quite a while back (in May 07) and over the last 2 weeks my plumber has been working his way through putting everything together. Until he hit a stumbling block. I got my shower enclosure, tray and waste from a company called Vega Bathrooms (take note as you may wish to avoid) for a very reasonable £347 using a visa credit card.

    Said shower enclosure, tray and waste were delivered on 10th May to my parents house and my Dad signed that they had arrived. When the delivery man moved the item into my parents garage my Dad mentioned that it was bulging at the bottom (the package rather than the delivery man) and the delivery man said that was because of packing and brackets etc.

    Well, 6 weeks after delivery the plumber had fitted the slightly dodgy (but willing to over-look this) tray and went to take over the shower screen to my flat and noticed that rather than the bulge being packing etc it was actually lots of little bits of glass ... 3 of the 4 panels were no longer panels. Not exactly fit for purpose.

    So, at the earliest opportunity I called Vega bathrooms fully expecting them to send me a replacement. Except they wouldn't without charging me for it £100 rather than the full £347.

    I tried everything I could think of but they were not going to budge ... even got my dad to ring them. Their reasoning was that I should have let them know within 14 days ... but policy is not on their website and they certainly didn't tell me about it over the phone.

    So then I tried my credit card people - they would pay if I broke it but as it was delivered broken they aren't interested! I was pretty sure that they carry some liability so I was quite surprised by this.

    So I've phoned trading standards, consumer direct and CAB and they all just keep telling me to write letters etc ... which is all very well and good but at the moment I'm trying to make progress on my bathroom so I can move home!!

    Today I called Vega bathrooms and tried the 'OK I'll accept your offer but expect a letter from me and I'm gonna write to trading standards' line. That made them retract their offer so I ended up back peddling as fast as I could ... so I gave over my credit card numbers again and hopefully will have a new shower enclosure for £90 (managed a £10 reduction) on Thursday. They won't even remove the large and heavy box of broken glass.

    To add insult to injury the waste is also a piece of rubbish and needs to be replaced as it is leaking. Poor plumber will have to de-tile to get the tray out and replace the waste.

    Hmf!

    So lessons learned
    1. Never sign for goods if you have not had the chance to inspect them throughly - sign for them as damaged even if you are not sure!
    2. Buy stuff from dodgy ebay people using pay pal as pay pal are really excellent at resolving disputes - and you only lose £15 per transaction.
    3. If wanting to claim off your credit card you should tell them you broke it not the delivery man.

    Any ideas?!

    SuzyQ

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    Re: Legal eagles and consumer rights ...

    Very briefly: Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act gives you the same remedies against the credit card company as against the supplier. The answer then is to write to the credit card company explaining the problem and explaining that you will not be paying their bill.

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    Registered User SuzyQ's Avatar
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    Re: Legal eagles and consumer rights ...

    Does anyone know if the fact I didn't alert anyone for 6 weeks mean I am entitled to no compensation??

    Unfortunately I already paid off the credit card for the initial outlay but could I try that with the £90??

    Thanks for your help

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    Re: Legal eagles and consumer rights ...

    Quote Originally Posted by SuzyQ View Post
    Does anyone know if the fact I didn't alert anyone for 6 weeks mean I am entitled to no compensation??

    Unfortunately I already paid off the credit card for the initial outlay but could I try that with the £90??

    Thanks for your help
    The situation is this.

    Ordinary contract law, together with the additional protection of consumer legislation, entitles you to performance by the other party of their part of the bargain, in return for which you have to perform your part of the bargain.

    In this case, you are entitled to an intact, undamaged product, 'free from minor defects' never mind major ones.

    The supplier offers something over and above what you are entitled to in law, probably something like a 14 day no questions asked replacement, or perhaps somewhat less.

    The point is that this is in addition to whatever other rights you have. If you can't claim under their 14 day notification scheme, it doesn't mean you can't claim at all. The question - as is usual in English law - comes down to one of 'reasonableness'. It's probably not unreasonable that you did not inspect the item at the time of delivery, items which are going to be stored for some time clearly will be better if they remain in the original packaging, and if you can't inspect without unwrapping you inspect when you do unwrap. That would all be reasonable.

    In summary, if you went to court and the supplier said 'She can't have a discount because she didn't notify us within 14 days as specified in the contract' the court won't waste a second on that argument, it simply dies on the spot.

    The problem you might encounter is proving that the damage happened on delivery. In all fairness building sites or the like are notorious for the damage inflicted on materials delivered and waiting to be used. This is not quite the same but the principle applies - how do we know that the damage wasn't caused by your plumber dropping it when he came to install it?

    Spin dryer's suggestion to pursue the Credit Card company is good. However, great difficulties arise if you have partially used the goods. If this was three separate items, you will be OK if one of them is unsatisfactory. However, if it was one combined item, as it were, and you cannot make restoration of what is undamaged because the tray has been fitted, how is the credit card operator to know what is the value of the damaged portion?

    If circumstances don't allow any better solution, what you do is this. You write to the supplier and notify them that they have seven days to propose a satisfactory solution, otherwise you will obtain a replacement item from another supplier and then issue a small claim for cost of the replacement. (On getting judgment, you would then have had what you bargained for, eg. a shower, for the cost you agreed to pay, and that is the outcome a claim is supposed to provide.) You must also explain that time is of the essence (better to state this explicitly) because you want to sell the house and the damaged item is a necessity.

    There is always the risk that you would not win the claim, but you aren't any worse off by following this route than by following any other.

    Keep records of everything, such as date and time of phone calls name of who you spoke to and what is said, including photographs, so that you can relatively easily corroborate any assertions you might want to make before the small claim judge.

    As you have already ordered replacement items from them, adapt the above procedure. Notify them that you expect a refund (not compensation; you get compensation when someone affects your right to cash or income or similar; what you are seeking is damages, the traditional remedy for breach of contract) so that you are in the position you originally bargained for: £370 worse off but a shower to the better!

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    Papa Smurf
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    Re: Legal eagles and consumer rights ...

    Quote Originally Posted by SuzyQ View Post
    Does anyone know if the fact I didn't alert anyone for 6 weeks mean I am entitled to no compensation??

    Unfortunately I already paid off the credit card for the initial outlay but could I try that with the £90??

    Thanks for your help
    Is the answer in here somewhere

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    Re: Legal eagles and consumer rights ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Is the answer in here somewhere
    No. The answer is in my post.

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    Re: Legal eagles and consumer rights ...

    Quote Originally Posted by SuzyQ View Post
    Any ideas?!
    SuzyQ
    Talk to these guys: The Office of Fair Trading: Consumer advice
    And from the Beeb: BBC - Consumer - Guides to - If things go wrong
    Hope this helps, Mike

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    Registered User SuzyQ's Avatar
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    Re: Legal eagles and consumer rights ...

    Thanks for all your help everyone ... much appreciated

    SuzyQ

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