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Reply With QuoteThat was a move I brought into my MJ, along with bounce and other good and bad things, from Trad-jive, learned dancing to traditional jazz bands in the 100 club, Oxford St. London and elsewhere.Originally Posted by MartinHarper
Yes, Modern Jive contains all aspects of other dances
Yes, everything in other dances can be adapted to fit into Modern Jive
No, there are aspects of other dances that do not fit with Modern Jive
No, everything in Modern Jive is contained in another dance
Return the girl, turn the guy, turn the girl. It becomes a six-beat Lindy move with a two-beat extension on the end.
I also tend to use th "Manhattan" move from Modern Jive on occasion in Lindy - just a 4-beat "jockey" or "travelling closed basic" instead of the regular 6-beat version. Switching it into Lindy gives it a different feel. It becomes light and springy, where in Modern Jive it's smoother and more even. I think that's because of the different lead/follow conventions.
That was a move I brought into my MJ, along with bounce and other good and bad things, from Trad-jive, learned dancing to traditional jazz bands in the 100 club, Oxford St. London and elsewhere.
If you believe modern jive is a dance form, please turn to page 123. If you think it ain’t, turn to page 86:
(page 86)
Modern jive is not a dance form. For something to be a form, it must have boundaries. In other words, rules. Since modern jive does not have rules, it is not a dance form. It is simply a random collection of steps and moves which do not share any traits other than that they are taught by people who call what they do ‘modern jive’.
(page 123 - for those of us who do teach with a specific framework)
Modern jive is a dance form. It has identifiable rhythm and characteristics. Some movements can be adapted into these rhythms and characteristics, some cannot. So Modern jive has elements that can not be reproduced in other dance forms, and other dance forms have elements that can not be reproduced in modern jive. Neither can claim ‘uber’ status. My guess is that anyone that says ‘anything you can do in WCS you can do in Modern Jive’ has not got that far yet with WCS. Likewise with the reverse statement.
Witty Philosophical Conclusion
Either way, Modern Jive is not a dance (form) that includes all others. Either it is a form, which by definition excludes others, or it is not a form, which make the original statement impossible.
Droll Afterthought
Modern Jive is a rather simple dance. This simplicity lends it a certain charm, malleability and accessibility. This same simplicity also leads to the occasional panicked inferiority complex, which in turns can lead to somewhat absurd grandiose Nietzschesque/messianic claims such as are heralded at the opening of this thread. What next? Modern Jive is the path to Utopia? There is no such place. Oh, er, hang on….
Mr Giles what on earth are you on about??? i`m extending you more latitude than most because of your resident status as president and chairman of the MJ hall of fame......
Conclusions from this post:
- Amir does not support the Uber-Dance-Theorem.
- Amir Giles is just a pseudonym for Steve Jackson. Or Steve Jackson is just a pseudonym for Amir Giles
- The path to Utopia is a rocky one.
Seems fairly clear - Amir's saying that either it's a form (which is by definition exclusive) or it's not a form (which invalidates the question).
Mr Giles what on earth are you on about???
I'm not sure I agree with the first point - separate forms can be inclusive. To take a trivial example, it's very easy to use both salsa and rumba moves in chacha. But does that make chacha an "uber-Latin-dance"? Probably not, it's just that the tempo is in between the two.
Dance forms don't all have a big wall around them - especially living forms. They change and adapt over time, and they can incorporate different moves and styles.
The second point is more interesting - is MJ actually a dance form? There's a good case for saying it's not - the only real definition we have is "partner dance, moves ending on beat 1 and 3" or whatever it was; no-one else seems to be able to define what MJ rules are. But that's probably a separate discussion...
Generous of you...
Is MJ a polymorphic virus that is crossing the dance species barrier?
Great. Just great. Those few careless words will now be starting an uncontrollable ripple of rumours, which will spread out, grow, be increasingly fed by media exploitation, followed by the inevitable public hysteria. Next, the politicians will start jumping on the bandwagon, the scientists will start developing advanced strains of Lindy, WCS and salsa to try and 'cure' this MJ virus, and when that fails, they will resort to the mass indiscriminate burning of Ceroc and independent teachers and students alike in order to eliminate the threat.
You may just have destroyed the UK jive world as we know it.
Please be more careful in future.
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