I like the name "Modern Jive".
I like the name "Ceroc(tm)".
I like another related name like "French Jive", "LeRoc", etc.
I'd like there to be a different name for this dance.
I don't mind either way...
freestyle is used by other dances
and sports of all kinds, it would be misleading. (but more catchy than "a few quid a night style")
a youtube search brings up a mere 131,000+ hits.
We need a unique new word, and a unique new word would qualify as a trade mark. So it needs someone to pick a word and trademark it, and allow its use by MJ dance organisations and protect it, or else pick something that has been in common usage for a few years and have an organisation object to any attempt to trademark it or use it as a business name.
Just plain simple MJ. We do MJ. Can be written big on small posters business cards and badges. We can use the appendage MJ dance until it becomes well enough known, or the prefixes Leroc MJ, Ceroc MJ, UK-Jive MJ etc. We do need a recognisable non-commercial name to describe the dance, for the good of all.
When I look at the ancestry and the main features of Modern Jive, it looks like a jive to me. Certainly far more of a jive than, say, Ballroom Jive. What features of Modern Jive make you feel that it is not a jive?
Certainly it is freestyle partner dancing, and that does set it apart from choreographed dances and dances with a strict syllabus of moves. On the other hand, there are lots of freestyle partner dances besides Modern Jive.
Some do, certainly.
I know what you mean Martin - it's just that the word JIVE is so......20th Century. And it conjures up certain images which put people off.
In no way does it capture the range and depth of styles and music used....
If someone asks me about my dancing (which happens quite a bit) then I have to start describing it........in lots of detail. My description goes kind of like this:
"It's partner dancing, with elements of jive, swing, salsa and ballroom. You can do loads of different moves and dance to almost any kind of music"
....That's the elevator pitch version.....which doesn't even cover half of it. To call it "MJ" (or something which had 'jive' in it would be doing it an injustice..... I know you don't rebrand something just for the sake of non-dancers.....but it does need some resonance in the general populace (including the man on the Clapham Omnibus...... (oh, how 20th Century)).
Join FreeStep - British Partner Dancing in Philadelphia! Link
"It's a kind of swing". Because then they can make the joke about "swingers" and I can laugh. Alternatively, I just rattle off the various dances I do, and they'll invariably have heard of one of them, maybe even had a relative or friend try it, and then we chat about that for a bit. If I'm recruiting, I just say "It's fun: you should try it".
Leroc ought to be the name by rights but I cannot see Ceroc handing such a PR coup to those that have been promoting Leroc for years, or to those that have adopted the name since with absolutely no connection to the Leroc federation.
Ceroc Leroc just does not sound right at all, whereas Ceroc MJ or Ceroc Freestyle are possible.
Why not "Nightclub Jive"?? If it's good enough for Jive Nation: Modern Jive Classes
As taken from their website: "What is Nightclub Jive? Nightclub Jive, aka Modern Jive is a partner dance that resembles many other forms of dance....."
-- Slightly off thread --
Well - this is where my perception is slightly different. When I see (and participate in) East Coast Swing (as In California last year - or Sweden this year).....for me it is a simplified SUBSET of MJ. East Coast Swing is the simplified form - and MJ can be way more complex - and certainly is vastly richer.
What struck me most was the feeling that East Coast Swing (not to be confused with the wondrous WCS) is stuck in a time warp - always with the same music and the same moves.
Disclaimer:
(Please note I bow to all the superior technicians and dance historians here; I am just expressing my view having seen and experienced it).
-- Slightly back on thread --
...so that is why I would call MJ the 'Über' dance form:
- The word über (German pronunciation <SMALL>(help·info)</SMALL>) comes from the German language. It is a cognate of both Latin super and Greek ύπερ (hyper), as well as English over (as in "overkill"). During the 2000s, über also became a synonym for super; e.g. überleet = supercool
Well.....
Remember the thread on the 140 new moves for MJ? That is apart from the new style elements (eg. dodeca-spins and one finger aerials).
Imho MJ is the most vibrant, innovative and forward looking dance form there is (well I would say that.......).
And that is down to..........the dancers (and also the new musik).
PS - I would still like to see you do a dance to 'Ain't no other man' - could you do it and put it on You Tube please. Thanks.
A lost cause, so naturally I am right there with you. I am also right there with Robert Austin. Robert formed the long since defunct breakaway Le Jive organisation. He ran the Le Jive championships and I believe it was he that brought the phrase Modern Jive into common usage (I blame him for "Modern". Never liked it. Doomed as concept like "modern" jazz.)
His perception seemed to that his championships were open to all forms of jive, swing, Lindy, ballroom jive, whatever. The richness of the current scene owes a lot to those championships. Modern Jive would be a super name for a magazine reflecting the current uber-scene. Ceroc, with its varied classes at weekenders and its Utopia format can rightly be said to be a Modern Jive organisation. What we need is a non-proprietary name for the good old arm-jive basket stuff that is still so successfully taught to beginners across the globe. I fear "Leroc", the rightful claimant, is just too much craw too swallow.
Last edited by bigdjiver; 12th-June-2007 at 10:44 AM.
Sorry, but I have to disagree completely there.
MJ is one of the least innovative of the "living" dances - for example, both salsa and AT have changed and progressed immensely compared to MJ over the last 10-15 years.
Adding lots of new moves isn't innovation, any more than adding lots of new words to a dictionary is innovation. It's how they're put together that matters.
All the style trends within MJ are very weak - this reflects the (relative) stagnation enforced by Ceroc as a price for standardisation. It's impossible to imagine an equivalent trend sweeping MJ like (for example) cross-body style swept salsa in the UK 7-8 years ago, simply because Ceroc wouldn't allow it to be taught.
Sure, eventually, some watered-down version of it might be taught in specialist workshops occasionally, but it'd never make it through to classes. Even if the teachers and franchisees wanted to, they wouldn't be allowed to. As a Ceroc teacher, you can't even alter the beginner moves you teach on any given day.
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