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Thread: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

  1. #21
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    they have both been dancing since the last millenium
    Christ, I feel depressed and old now

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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    No ... In the opinion of Gus and DJ they are not innovative dancers. Gus and DJ didn't comment on your opinion ......... though we could go off-thread and wonder if DJ and Gus's opinion outweigh WF as he's been around for five minutes and they have both been dancing since the last millenium

    Yeah Gus, I bow down to your superior knowledge and opinion.

    Just correct me everytime in wrong eh?

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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    Yeah Gus, I bow down to your superior knowledge and opinion.

    Just correct me everytime in wrong eh?
    Even Gus doesn't have that much time on his hands!!!!!

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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    I was extremely impressed by Russell Saxby's 'Smooth Grooves' class at Prestatyn - another up and coming star teacher?

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by Gojive View Post
    I was extremely impressed by Russell Saxby's 'Smooth Grooves' class at Prestatyn - another up and coming star teacher?
    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo Don't build his ego up any more! Took him to Bromborough on Thursday night. Despite the language barrier (Cockney v Souce) he managed to communicate ok and was rarely off the floor. He was the subject of MUCH admration.

    Seriously though ... I think Russ is a very good teacher ... but not innovative. He teaches a style that is becoming increasingly common ... due to some good teaching, but I don't think its a step in another direction. Ready to be corrrected on this though.

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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    As I said on a previous thread - Woodface , you need to get out more...

    What I was meaning - travel, see the Ceroc/MJ world, take lessons from the best...

    Travel the country, even try other countries...

    For example Nigel, who has been mentioned, travelled extensively, learning from all he could... before he even was thinking of competing or teaching

  7. #27
    Registered User Gojive's Avatar
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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo Don't build his ego up any more! Took him to Bromborough on Thursday night. Despite the language barrier (Cockney v Souce)
    "Souse"...what's that then, eh? eh? eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post

    Seriously though ... I think Russ is a very good teacher ... but not innovative.
    Yeah I guess so - but hey! He taught a class of moves that I actually managed to not only learn in one go, but also to retain for use in my freestyle weeks later...now that's innovation to me!

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    Registered User Whitebeard's Avatar
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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by Gojive View Post

    Yeah I guess so - but hey! He taught a class of moves that I actually managed to not only learn in one go, but also to retain for use in my freestyle weeks later...now that's innovation to me!
    In my case it'd be bladdy miraculous !!

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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Simple question ... where are they?

    ~We still have a plethora of solid, good instructors, WCS is developing somewhat apart from MJ but I don't see much real innovation.

    ~So .. do you know any real innovators or is the dance scene in a stage of consolidation?
    I don't know what you mean by "Innovative":

    Doing 'new' things? I suggest that the only reason you don't see new things is that you're getting a bit long in the tooth yourself - You have been exposed to MJ for a while and what may seem fresh and new to others, you have seen before by some of the 'old school'.

    Locally I am still inspired by Lisa, Freya, Caro, Tramp (when he's not off globe-trotting) - Innovation to me is inputting something 'extra' into a dance to make it stand above the rest of the crowd - their are only so many sources to draw uppon for this 'extra' - can you suggest any new ones?

    (I would love to see more 'street' and 'street-running' style stuff; an area I don't think has been exploited to it's full... perhaps it needs a bit more fitness and flexability than I have though )

  10. #30
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    Doing 'new' things? I suggest that the only reason you don't see new things is that you're getting a bit long in the tooth yourself
    I wish to God people would stop saying this...

    Personally, I don't agree with Gus's initial comments, I don't believe the level of innovation within MJ is at an all-time low. I reckon the lowest point so far was around 1998 - but then, you could argue that's when N&N started their whole Blues thing, so it's all subjective really.

    I also think that "innovative dancers" and "innovative teachers" are not always directly related, although there is probably some degree of correlation between the two.

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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    I wish to God people would stop saying this...

    Personally, I don't agree with Gus's initial comments, I don't believe the level of innovation within MJ is at an all-time low. I reckon the lowest point so far was around 1998 - but then, you could argue that's when N&N started their whole Blues thing, so it's all subjective really.

    I also think that "innovative dancers" and "innovative teachers" are not always directly related, although there is probably some degree of correlation between the two.

    It all depends on your perception of innovative. For me there are people who are innovative, but they are not seen so by others.

    Also is there much diffrence between innovative and inspiring?

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by woodface View Post
    Also is there much diffrence between innovative and inspiring?
    Yes, I think so - someone can be inspiring by doing (for example) nothing but standard Ceroc-style moves, but doing them superbly well. Of course, you could argue that the only way to be inspiring doing standard Ceroc moves is to be innovative...

    But "inspiration" is subjective, and "innovation" is more objective, in my view.

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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Yes, I think so - someone can be inspiring by doing (for example) nothing but standard Ceroc-style moves, but doing them superbly well. Of course, you could argue that the only way to be inspiring doing standard Ceroc moves is to be innovative...

    But "inspiration" is subjective, and "innovation" is more objective, in my view.
    Guess that is part of the reason we have ceroc-x in the champs.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    But "inspiration" is subjective, and "innovation" is more objective, in my view.
    Although in MJ, an awful lot of "innovation" is basically taking ideas and concepts from another area of dance and incorporating them into MJ. The same could be said for many other dances, of course. And there's still genuine innovation involved in blending the styles. But that's not really my point.

    There was a time when you could throw in a couple of hip-hop moves into a MJ routine, and everyone would be "Wow, that's so original!". But now, a combination of factors (competitions, weekenders, DVDs, internet forums, and visiting teachers from the US) mean that there's a lot more cross-fertilization. Everyone's seen hip-hop, latin, tango already and so it takes a lot more to really stand out from the crowd. But I think we've got a lot of dancers now who would be thought of as innovative if you transported them back to 1998.

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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    If there is a lack of innovation at the moment - is this necessarily a bad thing? Could it just be that the innovations of the last few years are still progressing and developing?

    Several names have been mentioned who have obviously made a huge contribution to the MJ scene, and continue to do so - that's obvious from the reactions to various workshops/opportunities to dance with these leading lights. And they're still continuing with what they've started.

    Maybe the MJ scene will consolidate these innovations (and the new, outstanding, dancers absorb them) before the next batch develop? Possibly the newer dancers already mentioned will become innovative (in a formal way - developing new styles and teaching them) once they've learnt more from what currently exists?

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    Re: Innovative Dancers / Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    I reckon the lowest point so far was around 1998 - but then, you could argue that's when N&N started their whole Blues thing, so it's all subjective really.
    Very subjective, as in 1998 N&N had a range of workshops, including musicallity, dancing to fast and slow music, blues and others. It was a high point in the SE England where I at the time ran a dance company and was one of the first to employ them, after their first champs entry, where they took out showcase. [I had booked them before the champs, but did benifit from the fact they were current champs]

    The workshops created numbers until then unknown - they made cash and I made a sh1tload of cash.

    I would say that is ground breaking.....

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