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Thread: The 'N' word

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    The 'N' word

    It’s a funny world we live in

    I can just about remember ‘Love Thy Neighbour’

    Anyway cant help but watch big brother these days

    Ps don’t mention the N word but I feel a strong reprimand would have been in order

    But to drag her out of bed at 3am and force her out of the house , I think Germany mid 1930s its scary very scary

    Programme last night was talking about the ‘N’ word, papers even block it out ie N*****

    Very scary

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    Re: The 'N' word

    You love a bit of controversy, don't you Stewart.

    I shall watch this thread carefully and have a little bet with myself about who is the first person to be completely inappropriate and get mullered by everyone else on the forum.


    I'm keeping my gob shut for a change.

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    Re: The 'N' word

    I'm not watching BB this year; I couldn't even tell you the names of any of the contestants. This is partly because it's horribly addictive - you watch once, and you end up getting glued to it, but because it degrades the audience as much as the contestants. The people who go on it are the worst kind of personality-deficient attention-whores anyway, and we're encouraging the whole sorry freakshow by tuning in.

    As for Channel 4 expressing outrage at the mention of the 'n' word - you can't tell me that they're not also rubbing their hands at the publicity this generated. The best way of dealing with Big Brother is not to watch it. Without the oxygen of publicity it will die away very quickly...

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    You love a bit of controversy, don't you Stewart.

    I shall watch this thread carefully and have a little bet with myself about who is the first person to be completely inappropriate and get mullered by everyone else on the forum.


    I'm keeping my gob shut for a change.
    It will be me. Not been mullered for at least a week now.

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsichorea View Post
    I'm not watching BB this year; I couldn't even tell you the names of any of the contestants. This is partly because it's horribly addictive - you watch once, and you end up getting glued to it, but because it degrades the audience as much as the contestants. The people who go on it are the worst kind of personality-deficient attention-whores anyway, and we're encouraging the whole sorry freakshow by tuning in.

    As for Channel 4 expressing outrage at the mention of the 'n' word - you can't tell me that they're not also rubbing their hands at the publicity this generated. The best way of dealing with Big Brother is not to watch it. Without the oxygen of publicity it will die away very quickly...
    Well, stop talki8ng about it then!

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Well, stop talki8ng about it then!
    OK. I'm not talking about it. There. I've stopped. Right now. No more talking.

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    You love a bit of controversy, don't you Stewart.

    I shall watch this thread carefully and have a little bet with myself about who is the first person to be completely inappropriate and get mullered by everyone else on the forum.


    I'm keeping my gob shut for a change.
    Not at all

    I watched big brother when it first came out but then stopped but like many read the papers and started to watching it again this year (plus the celebratory one)

    Having 11 women in there to start with as ‘very clever thinking’ of C4

    I see there bringing in a tee total man which kind of ruins my bid for 2008 (Jack Dee theme) . I bet they allow extra booze when he comes in

    Anyway on the subject of the N word it encourages lively debate on radio TV shows

    Its an offensive comment but the two made up and it was said I believe with no malicious.

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    I watched big brother when it first came out but then stopped but like many read the papers and started to watching it again this year (plus the celebratory one)
    I don't watch it either, but then i found out that Prince is a big fan of BB and is planning on doing a private gig for them.

    I'm so torn...I don't know whether to disown Prince or start watching BB

    I did try to watch it last night in bed, because I wanted to see the 'N' word incident, but Gav had other ideas and I missed the last half hour.

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I don't watch it either, but then i found out that Prince is a big fan of BB and is planning on doing a private gig for them.

    I'm so torn...I don't know whether to disown Prince or start watching BB

    I did try to watch it last night in bed, because I wanted to see the 'N' word incident, but Gav had other ideas and I missed the last half hour.
    Is it only a half hour show? You mean he had other Ideas and you missed the intro credits?

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I did try to watch it last night in bed, because I wanted to see the 'N' word incident, but Gav had other ideas and I missed the last half hour.

    Gav needs to polish up his skills , shouldnt be missing more then 2/3 mins max

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I did try to watch it last night in bed, because I wanted to see the 'N' word incident, but Gav had other ideas and I missed the last half hour.
    arn't you supposed to be shopping ??

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    Re: The 'N' word

    The "N" word is not one of those that dare not speak its name. That word is nigger. It is a word that is usually used in a derogatory and prejudiced way to describe black people. However, it also seems to be used by those very people in an affectionate way.

    I think that we should consider the context that a word is used. If this person in Big Brother was using the word in a racist way they should be prosecuted by the police for inciting racial hatred (Public Order Act 1976). And so should the producers of Big Brother if they chose to broadcast that clip as that would further incite racial hatred. On the other hand, if it was two black people, one of them calling the other "nigger" in a non-racist way, I believe that no offence would have been committed as this is a form of address between black that is commonly used AFAIK.

    However, this leaves us with a conundrum. What if a white person was to call a black person "nigger" in the same, non-racist, way as another black person? Would you find fault with that white person? To do so would, of course, mean that you had based your decision on skin colour.

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    On the other hand, if it was two black people, one of them calling the other "nigger" in a non-racist way, I believe that no offence would have been committed as this is a form of address between black that is commonly used AFAIK.

    However, this leaves us with a conundrum. What if a white person was to call a black person "nigger" in the same, non-racist, way as another black person? Would you find fault with that white person? To do so would, of course, mean that you had based your decision on skin colour.
    Are you suggesting a "reclaiming" of the word by the black community? It's been done before - I believe that "dyke" was used as an insult initially, but was later reclaimed by the lesbian community and a positive meaning attached to it. Words, after all, have the meaning that we chose to attach to them.

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    The "N" word is not one of those that dare not speak its name. That word is nigger. It is a word that is usually used in a derogatory and prejudiced way to describe black people. However, it also seems to be used by those very people in an affectionate way.

    I think that we should consider the context that a word is used. If this person in Big Brother was using the word in a racist way they should be prosecuted by the police for inciting racial hatred (Public Order Act 1976). And so should the producers of Big Brother if they chose to broadcast that clip as that would further incite racial hatred. On the other hand, if it was two black people, one of them calling the other "nigger" in a non-racist way, I believe that no offence would have been committed as this is a form of address between black that is commonly used AFAIK.

    However, this leaves us with a conundrum. What if a white person was to call a black person "nigger" in the same, non-racist, way as another black person? Would you find fault with that white person? To do so would, of course, mean that you had based your decision on skin colour.
    The rule of thumb seems to be that it's perfectly acceptable to call someone a 'nigger' if you are black yourself, but it's seen as a derogatory statement if you're white. I know a lot of black guys who call each other 'nigger' (I suppose in an affectation of American ebonics) but would have a seizure if a white person was to say it to them. But that leads to an interesting problem - what if you're mixed race? Are you therefore entitled to use the word 'nigger' in a friendly sense to another black person? In the climate of political correctness, knowing someone's ethnic background can make a subtle difference to the language people use in front of them. For example, I'm mixed race (Asian) although it's not hugely apparent from my appearance. However, when I make people aware of this fact, it often slightly modifies the way in which they describe Asian culture etc in front of me.

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Are you suggesting a "reclaiming" of the word by the black community? It's been done before - I believe that "dyke" was used as an insult initially, but was later reclaimed by the lesbian community and a positive meaning attached to it. Words, after all, have the meaning that we chose to attach to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by The African American Registry
    Another interesting and confusing experience in American speech is the use of nigger by African Americans. Poetry by Blacks is instructive, one can often find the word nigger used in Black writings. Major and minor poets alike have used it with startling results: Imamu Amiri Baraka, contemporary poet, uses nigger in one of his angriest poems, "I Don't Love You." and what was the world to the words of slick nigger fathers too depressed to explain why they could not appear to be men. One wonders how are readers supposed to understand "nigger fathers"? Baraka's use of this imagery, regardless of his purpose, reinforces the stereotype of the worthless, pleasure-seeking Coon caricature. Ted Joans's use of nigger in "The Nice Colored Man" is an example of explainable expression. Joan's said he was asked to give a reading in London because he was a "nice colored man." Infuriated by the labels "nice" and "colored", Joan's wrote a quintessential rebellious poem. While the poem should be read in its entirety, a few lines will do: Smart Black Nigger Smart Black Nigger Smart Black Nigger Smart Black Nigger Knife Carrying Nigger Gun Toting Nigger Military Nigger Clock Watching Nigger Poisoning Nigger Disgusting Nigger Black Ass Nigger. This piece uses adjective upon adjective attached to the word nigger.

    The reality is that many of these uses can be heard in present-day African-American society. Herein lies part of the difficulty: the word nigger endures because it is used over and over again, even by the people it insults. Writer Devorah Major, said, "It's hard for me to say what someone can or can't say, because I work with language all the time, and I don't want to be limited." Poet and professor Opal Palmer Adisa claims that the use of nigger or nigga is "the same as young people's obsession with swearing. A lot of their use of such language is an internalization of negativity about themselves." Rappers, themselves poets, rap about niggers before mostly white audiences, some of whom see themselves as wiggers (white niggers) and refer to one another as "my niggah." Snoop Doggy Dogg’s single, "You Thought," raps, "Wanna grab a skinny nigga like Snoop Dogg/Cause you like it tall/and work it baby doll." Tupac Shakur’s "Crooked Ass Nigga." lyrics included, "Now I could be a crooked nigga too/When I'm rollin' with my crew." Also rap lyrics that degrade women and glamorize violence reinforce the historical Brute Caricature. .

    Erdman Palmore researched lexicons and said: the number of offensive words used correlates positively with the amount of out-group prejudice; and these express and support negative stereotypes about the most visible racial and cultural differences. When used by Blacks, nigger refers to among other things: all Blacks ("A nigger can't even get a break."); Black men ("Sisters want niggers to work all day long."); Blacks who behave in a stereotypical, and sometimes legendary, manners ("He's a lazy, good-for-nothing nigger."); things ("This piece-of-**** car is such a nigger."); enemy's ("I'm sick and tired of those niggers bothering me!"); and friends ("Me and my niggers are tight."). This final habit, as a kind word, is particularly challenging. "Zup Niggah," has become an almost universal greeting among young urban Blacks. When asked, Blacks who use nigger or its variants argue that: it has to be understood in its situation; repeated use of the word by Blacks will make it less offensive. It’s not really the same word because whites are saying nigger (and niggers) but Blacks are saying niggah (and niggaz). Also it is just a word and Blacks should not be prisoners of the past or the ugly words that originated in the past.
    Of course, I have an objection to the African American Registry - my objection is that its very existence is racist.
    Last edited by Andy McGregor; 8th-June-2007 at 11:14 AM.

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    However, it also seems to be used by those very people in an affectionate way.
    If you have ever watch Eddie Murphy or Richard Pryor doing stand up, they always refer to black people as niggers, but having read Rcihard Pryors biography, it would seem that upper class black people refer to lower class black people as niggers in a derogatory way...so it's still used as an insult, even among black people.

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    However, this leaves us with a conundrum. What if a white person was to call a black person "nigger" in the same, non-racist, way as another black person? Would you find fault with that white person? To do so would, of course, mean that you had based your decision on skin colour.

    So if I choose factor 30 based on my skin colour does that make me racist ?

    All joking aside BNP must be having a field day

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    If you have ever watch Eddie Murphy or Richard Pryor doing stand up, they always refer to black people as niggers, but having read Rcihard Pryors biography, it would seem that upper class black people refer to lower class black people as niggers in a derogatory way...so it's still used as an insult, even among black people.
    But it's also used in an affected way by asian lads. I hear them all the time, pretending to be gangstas and calling each other 'homez', and 'nigger'. I think the word has become very much associated with hip-hop culture, at least with people under 20.

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Are you suggesting a "reclaiming" of the word by the black community? It's been done before - I believe that "dyke" was used as an insult initially, but was later reclaimed by the lesbian community and a positive meaning attached to it.
    "Queer", also, in a similar way.

    Words and symbols can be reclaimed, and modified, given enough effort by a large enough sector of the relevant community - and that's a Good Thing, in my view.

    But I don't think the N word is being actively "reclaimed" in that sense by the black community - it's more that it was used by a bunch of dumbass rap singers for shock value, and then moved into mainstream "slang" usage.

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    Re: The 'N' word

    Classic line from Shaun of the Dead, when Ed says to a bunch of white mates "wassup niggers".

    Also vaguely relevant, given the name of this forum is that the earliest recorded use of the word Nigger, was by Robert Burns in a poem in 1786.

    When it comes down to it, words are just words. No more, no less. It's the intention and the depth of feeling attached to the use of them that people should be offended by.
    After all I could describe two people as "lovely" and mean it as a compliment to one and an insult to the other.

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