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Thread: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

  1. #21
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Do you realise just how up yourself you sound Rob?

    Well, to be fair, he is a WCS-er

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    There has already been discussion here about the WCS hotshots, this attitude just adds more fuel to that fire. Suggesting that jivers are somehow not worthy to dance with Jordan and Tatiana is complete tosh.
    That's not what he was saying.

    Another way of putting it, would be that Tatiana (for example) is not a good enough MJ-er to make it a memorable experience dancing MJ with her - effectively, she could be at the same level as a beginner in MJ.

    So, the only real reason to want to dance with her might be to say "Ooh, look, I danced with Tatiana " or whatever.

    Note: I've no idea what Tatiana is like at MJ - that's just the argument as I understand it.

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    As for dancing jive with Jordan and Tatiana being a waste of their time and talent, how utterly pompous Comparing WCS/jive to tennis/football really sums up this argument - complete nonsense!
    Why? Dance forms are different, aren't they? Surely it's best to use their strengths? All professional dancers specialise, there's no shame in that...

  2. #22
    Commercial Operator StokeBloke's Avatar
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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post

    Well, to be fair, he is a WCS-er
    I rest m' case m'lud
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Why? Dance forms are different, aren't they? Surely it's best to use their strengths? All professional dancers specialise, there's no shame in that...
    No shame in specialising. But tennis and football are two completely different things, bearing no resemblance to each other and with no real cross over at all. If he had suggested tennis and squash perhaps the analogy may have worked as there is a plethora of transferable skill in the two games, just as there are between WCS and jive. That is why I feel the analogy is laughably flawed.





    On a side note, I danced with Tatiana at Southport. I had only done six WCS lessons but I opted to dance WCS with her the best I could as I felt it would be a golden opportunity, too good to miss. The result? I'm sure our dance was instantly forgettable for her, but last night still aching and not feeling like leaving my front room I drove to Congelton and had my WCS lesson solely because that dance had inspired me to want to do better. Thank you Tatiana

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    Registered User Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I also saw at least 4 other occasions at the weekend of people jiving with J or T.
    Were they in a WCS room at the time?

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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr View Post
    If you aren't sure whether someone dances a particular style you just say:
    Would you care for a jive?
    or
    Would you care for a WCS?
    etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    ...For example, the last time I danced with a Carolina Shag follower...
    ...
    ...
    I don't even have to say it, do I?
    Fancy a....


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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264 View Post
    ...
    ...
    I don't even have to say it, do I?
    Fancy a....

    Fancy a Carolina? First girl I ever had a crush on.....

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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I'll accept ... that the teachers themselves may enjoy dancing a different style ...
    If the teachers enjoy doing this, is it reasonable to expect them to stop enjoying themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    ... denying others the chance to enhance their dancing ...
    Would you accept that there are many learning possibilities from dancing Modern Jive with folks who are accustomed to other dance styles?

  7. #27
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    This might not be a popular stance, but I see a big benefit of getting people like J/T to teach is so that it can improve the level of our better dancers and teachers. Because even if I'm greedy, I'm only going to have a couple of dances with Tatianna myself, and WCS god that she is, that's not going to be enough to make me a good WCS dancer. It's the hundreds of subsequent classes I have with the likes of Cat, Paul W, etc. that will have to do that. So I'm perfectly happy for them to get the lion's share of the dances; it can only help me in the future.

    And conversely, I think it's perfectly understandable (if not exactly tactful) for the better WCS dancers to feel its not the best use of J/Ts time to be dancing with someone who doesn't even know the basics. Because there are lots of people who can teach them the basics - they don't need J/T for that.

    But at the end of the day, it's social dancing we're talking about, not teaching. So I'd say you can ask who you want. Just be considerate about what styles they know and how busy/tired they are. And don't assume someone saying "no" means they're a big WCS snob.

    Personally, I do think you should also be considerate about who the other people around you want to dance with. You shouldn't "hog" any dancer (except possibly your other half), and you shouldn't take it as a big insult if they'd rather grab a dance with Jordan than dance with you. I recall sitting with someone and agreeing we'd do the next dance. Then Robert Cordoba came along. She was going to turn him down and I told her "Don't be stupid. Grab your chance to dance with Robert. It's not like you won't get lots of other chances to dance with me".

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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    I thought MJ followers rock-stepped on 1. At least in theory.
    yeah, I know. I probably should have said 'move forward before being lead on 1', because I think what happens (at least when I lead my very basic WCS with MJ dancers / beginners WCS-er) is that they in fact do the rock step during the anchor step (cause they don't know how to anchor and revert to their MJ basics), probably on 5, then move forward on 6 (in a 6 beat pattern), hence the perception that they move forward before being lead (on 1, or 7 in that example) into the next pattern.
    Or something to the same effect anyway, it is a very distinctive feature of MJ dancers doing WCS, before they learn to correct it.

  9. #29
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    yeah, I know. I probably should have said 'move forward before being lead on 1', because I think what happens (at least when I lead my very basic WCS with MJ dancers / beginners WCS-er) is that they in fact do the rock step during the anchor step (cause they don't know how to anchor and revert to their MJ basics), probably on 5, then move forward on 6 (in a 6 beat pattern), hence the perception that they move forward before being lead (on 1, or 7 in that example) into the next pattern.
    Or something to the same effect anyway, it is a very distinctive feature of MJ dancers doing WCS, before they learn to correct it.
    I have an related question (but a bit off thread). If dancing to a funky track that says WCS to me, and I'm being led slotted MJ, instead of stepping back right on a rock step and forward on my right (ie R-L-R) I have found myself doing an anchor step and forward on my right.

    I think this has felt to the lead the same or very similar to a rock step in terms of connection. My feet tend to do their own thing and its only when its seemed to fit the music.

    Is this OK? Has anyone else done this?

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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Is this OK? Has anyone else done this?
    I do it very, very often, mostly because I have been working very hard to fight that MJ habit out of my WCS, and it has now become the way I dance, even in MJ. I think leads find it a bit weird cause it's not the standard way of doing things, but they cope ok .
    Hence me saying some time ago 'I don't step back' anymore

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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by foxylady View Post
    They did dance and said they had a fabulous time! They actually asked someone (can't remember who) for a quick lesson in the basics before they joined in. I think Vincent found it a little harder.... [/COLOR][/SIZE]
    It was Lynne Pearson, one of our crew and the 2005 UK Open Jive Spotlight winner.

  12. #32
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Please feel free to put forward your opinion of how you would feel if you were asked to dance in a style other than the one you were a world champion in Rob - but please don't phrase it in such a way that makes it seem like real world champions would concur with you.
    I think there's some sarcasm in there somewhere but I am so far up myself it's too dark to see it. Anything I post is my opinion. I don't know where you get the 'such a way that makes it seem like real world champions would concur with you' from


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post

    Well, to be fair, he is a WCS-er
    Only in the same way as SB is a WCS-er (see end quote) though I accept that WCS-er is used here as a synonym for hotshot :yawn:. I've taken a few workshops now and I try wherever possible and desirable to dance it socially. I am concentrating on my basics and really trying to get those to a solid position before adding to them. I felt just as awed by some of the talent on display in the Dance Den as anyone but I stuck with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ
    That's not what he was saying.

    Another way of putting it, would be that Tatiana (for example) is not a good enough MJ-er to make it a memorable experience dancing MJ with her - effectively, she could be at the same level as a beginner in MJ.

    So, the only real reason to want to dance with her might be to say "Ooh, look, I danced with Tatiana " or whatever.

    Note: I've no idea what Tatiana is like at MJ - that's just the argument as I understand it.
    Exactly what I meant DJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    But tennis and football are two completely different things, bearing no resemblance to each other and with no real cross over at all. If he had suggested tennis and squash perhaps the analogy may have worked as there is a plethora of transferable skill in the two games, just as there are between WCS and jive. That is why I feel the analogy is laughably flawed.
    Can't agree with that and I didn't want to specifically link this argument to WCS only though that's the example from the latest Southport. Ostensibly a certain type of slotted Jive and WCS share a number of similarities but NZ Monkey outlines a good set of reasons why the two are also very different in the WCS Hotshots thread. Tennis and football share a number of attributes in common - physical fitness, eye:hand/foot co-ordination to name but two. Just because there isn't a close visual similarity doesn't mean that the characteristics that determine good performance in one are not similar for the other.




    On a side note, I danced with Tatiana at Southport. I had only done six WCS lessons but I opted to dance WCS with her the best I could as I felt it would be a golden opportunity, too good to miss. The result? I'm sure our dance was instantly forgettable for her, but last night still aching and not feeling like leaving my front room I drove to Congelton and had my WCS lesson solely because that dance had inspired me to want to do better. Thank you Tatiana
    You've just confirmed my argument for me StokeBloke. Your dance with T has enhanced your dancing, not just given you celeb-cred by association and this is exactly the reason why I feel that the most benefit to be gained from the pro dancers is by dancing in their style.

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    Registered User spindr's Avatar
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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Would you invite Steven Gerrard to your house and ask him to play tennis with you?
    Not quite Steven Gerrard -- but it has been done already.
    SpinDr

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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Personally, I will ask a teacher to dance, and I will dance with them. (assuming they accept of course ) I dance to the music. I lead by trying to follow their 'natural' style. I give them space and a frame to express the music and take them with me when I want to do something with the music. In short, I dance with them.

    The "style" thing I think is immaterial - the 'star' dancers/teachers enjoy dancing, they are in a room full of folk enjoying dancing. They have skill and tallent enough to follow lots of subtle stuff that most other dance forms have, I think that the MJ lead may appear to be very crude in comparison and fairly simple to follow.

    {Then again, there are not many people who would call how I dance "Ceroc" ... (erm... some may also argue the "dance" part as well )}

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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post

    {Then again, there are not many people who would call how I dance "Ceroc" ... (erm... some may also argue the "dance" part as well )}

    Awwwww .... You definitely dance ......

    And it works with my version of non-ceroc too

  16. #36
    Juju
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    Re: Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    As for dancing jive with Jordan and Tatiana being a waste of their time and talent, how utterly pompous

    Jordan and Tatiana were at a dance event, dancing. People asked them to dance, they accepted.



    Haven't posted on here for a long time, but....

    Can't help thinking of the first Southport, when I'd not been dancing long, but managed to pluck up the courage to ask both Victor and Trampy for a dance (both were teaching that weekend as I remember it). I was inexperienced, knew bugger all about anything or anyone, but I figured I might learn something from dancing with people who obviously knew what they were doing - which is, after all, what we're all encouraged to do when we start out. It wouldn't have mattered if their speciality was WCS, Tango or whatever - I probably wouldn't have known or even been able to tell. Furthermore, Southport is a jive event and you can be sure that the one dance everyone present knows is modern jive - and every 'celebrity' (your description) attending would presumably be aware of that. This is supposed to be social dancing, remember, and trying to create a 'pecking order' in order to decide who gets to dance with whom is therefore both inappropriate and mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Would you invite Steven Gerrard to your house and ask him to play tennis with you? Would you ask AC/DC to pop in and expect a rendition of Beethoven's 5th?
    Um yes, why not? If they then refused on the grounds that it was beneath them, I'd chalk them up as miserable scrotes and not ask them round again. Simple.
    Last edited by Juju; 10th-June-2007 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Bad spelling!

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