Should you ask teachers to dance if you don't dance their dance-style?

[robd]

Would you invite Steven Gerrard to your house and ask him to play tennis with you? Would you ask AC/DC to pop in and expect a rendition of Beethoven's 5th?

I suspect the answer is probably no. So why do people expect teachers at weekenders who are there to teach their particular dance-style to jive? Why were people who had little or no exposure to WCS asking Jordan or Tatiana to dance? They know the teachers cannot really say no but, to me, it is disrespectful to them to be asking them to dance in a style that is alien to them. I guess it is the cult of celebrity - 'I danced with XXX, Wow! It was a crap dance but, hey, I danced with XXX!'

That said, Fletch promising Jordan a charity dance is priceless

[ducasi]

I think it's OK for a beginner in whatever dance-style to ask anyone who does that same dance-style for a dance.

I haven't heard of anyone doing what you suggest.

[robd]

I think it's OK for a beginner in whatever dance-style to ask anyone who does that same dance-style for a dance.

I haven't heard of anyone doing what you suggest.

See

Didn't wcs at all (I can't) but still had some great dances with WC swingers including Tatiana (whome I couldn't dance with properly as was worried I would break her. Told I went white).

I also saw at least 4 other occasions at the weekend of people jiving with J or T.

[Freudian Hips]

Would you invite Steven Gerrard to your house and ask him to play tennis with you? Would you ask AC/DC to pop in and expect a rendition of Beethoven's 5th?

I suspect the answer is probably no. So why do people expect teachers at weekenders who are there to teach their particular dance-style to jive? Why were people who had little or no exposure to WCS asking Jordan or Tatiana to dance? They know the teachers cannot really say no but, to me, it is disrespectful to them to be asking them to dance in a style that is alien to them. I guess it is the cult of celebrity - 'I danced with XXX, Wow! It was a crap dance but, hey, I danced with XXX!'

That said, Fletch promising Jordan a charity dance is priceless

If one were to follow that logic through one would never ask anybody better than or different to oneself to dance. The alternative is to think "Oh my god, it's (for example) Jordan, I can't ever ask him for a dance because he is way too good". Nah - not going to happen. I asked Jordan because he happened to be right there and because I had been to his classes over the weekend. This is no different to usual social behaviour. We need to be careful about the cult of celebrity from either direction (overkeen or overawed).

As a follower, I expect to follow the dance style of the lead, whatever that is. However, as with all mixtures of culture and language, it is so much more mutually respectful and fun when the learning and experimentation happens both ways. Good teachers (clearly including J&T ) do this instinctively.

PS I bet AC/DC could do a really very interesting version of the 5th. Yes, ok and I did go home and tell my girls I had a dance with the man who danced to Pump It on Youtube!

[ducasi]

See

[...]

I also saw at least 4 other occasions at the weekend of people jiving with J or T.

OK, well from what I've seen in the past it doesn't take long at all for a good WCS dancer to get used to dancing MJ. And this is just regular WCS dancers, not the best of the best.

So, yeah, if I had the opportunity and the inclination, I might have asked Tatiana to dance MJ, though I'd ask her if it was OK first.

Might not do the same with dance goddesses of other styles, but I figure, with a "non-educated" dance like MJ, a good follower in most other partner dance styles would adapt fairly quickly.

[David Bailey]

If one were to follow that logic through one would never ask anybody better than or different to oneself to dance.

Vincent and Flavia famously danced till the early hours in the Blues Room in February - I assume this was MJ, and I assume they didn't object?

[straycat]

So why do people expect teachers at weekenders who are there to teach their particular dance-style to jive? Why were people who had little or no exposure to WCS asking Jordan or Tatiana to dance?

May I refer the learned gentleman to this post, containing a response from a teacher in such a position, to the event she attended? Sounds like she had fun...

Most good teachers I've come across are always up for trying new things. Isn't it somewhat insulting to them to assume they would rather stick to what they know, and to avoid asking them to dance on that basis?

[foxylady]

Vincent and Flavia famously danced till the early hours in the Blues Room in February - I assume this was MJ, and I assume they didn't object?

They did dance and said they had a fabulous time! They actually asked someone (can't remember who) for a quick lesson in the basics before they joined in. I think Vincent found it a little harder.... but then tango is walking and Mj is walking so how different can they be (ok am ducking now and running away very fast - and yes I do know the difference so I don't need a lecture)

[foxylady]

May I refer the learned gentleman to this post, containing a response from a teacher in such a position, to the event she attended? Sounds like she had fun...

Most good teachers I've come across are always up for trying new things. Isn't it somewhat insulting to them to assume they would rather stick to what they know, and to avoid asking them to dance on that basis?

I think you meant this post as the link you gave just pointed to the beginning of page 2 in the thread rather than post no 96 on page 5 (which is I assume the one you meant)

[David Bailey]

They did dance and said they had a fabulous time! They actually asked someone (can't remember who) for a quick lesson in the basics before they joined in.

Did someone tell them they needed to do 6 lessons before they could move up to be intermediates?

I think Vincent found it a little harder.... but then tango is walking and Mj is walking so how different can they be (ok am ducking now and running away very fast - and yes I do know the difference so I don't need a lecture)

Brave woman

Go on, diss WCS, I dare you...

[Caro]

I think it depends a little on the teacher in question (i.e. check they're ok with it first) and what dance they are doing. Also, this is bound to be easier for follows teachers than leads.
As somebody else mentioned, ultimately those guys love dancing and there's a good chance that they will have fun giving a go at pretty much anything (look at Carla, and Vincent and Flavia).

Now at the same time, people who attend the week-end and can dance their style should also be given a chance to dance with them and observe them dancing socially in their dance, because this is very inspirational.
I have to say that I would have found it a little unfair if good WCS music was being played and everybody who can MJ and not WCS was queuing up to ask J&T for a dance. It's a fine balance. (go on, call me a hotshot now )

I know Jordan said he struggled a little with MJ, and in particular found it difficult to cope with follows who step forward on 1 without being lead (which is one of the distinctive traits of MJ dancers). Now that doesn't mean that he didn't enjoy giving it a try and that he didn't have fun dancing with those ladies anyway.

[straycat]

I think you meant this post as the link you gave just pointed to the beginning of page 2 in the thread rather than post no 96 on page 5 (which is I assume the one you meant)

Grrr. Sorry about that. I imagine it's because I have my settings to give me 50 posts per page... and so it got the page count right for me, but wrong for everyone else. I must remember this when linking to posts in the future....

Thanks for the correction.

[fletch]

That said, Fletch promising Jordan a charity dance is priceless

it took him a while to get my sence of humour bit like Phil but he got there in the end, good job or he could have really given me a hard time on the dance floor, especially when I shot off doing my own thing and he had to wait till I gave him the lead back. ......it helped my nerves

I think it's OK for a beginner in whatever dance-style to ask anyone who does that same dance-style for a dance.

I haven't heard of anyone doing what you suggest.

Ben, in the main room, think it was the last Southport, I asked him to dance and he said 'Sure but I don't do MJ' I said 'oooooo this will be interesting I don't WCS'

I was fine I think

Go on, diss WCS, I dare you...

Not me as I WCS according to Jordan

[drathzel]

Well my only experience of this was at Blaze when i was going to ask Franck to dance but he was asking Carla at the same time. I said i'd catch him for one later (which i never got ) and went to walk away only to be chased by Ben and asked would i like to dance with him instead!MMM DUH!!!!

He said to me on the way to the dance floor that if i didnt do any of the styles he did then he would happily fake ceroc, which would have been fine if i hadnt have opened my stupid mouth and mentioned that i have done a littloe wcs in the past but am a bit rusty, to which he replied "Great" but the relief on his face said it all. So we wc-ed and it was fun! Scary but fun. He was lovely afterwards and said that i did very well!

The funny thing was if he hadnt anchored at the end of the moves i probably would have thought he was doing some slotted variations of jive that you get with people who have done both.

I thought it was sweet of him to offer and it gave me the opertunity to dance wcs with a fab lead.

I know as a teacher and a follow that if someone asks me to do something that isnt jive/ceroc then i will happliy do it, however as a lead i would find it harder if not impossible to do something i didnt dance.

I think it would probably be "ok" if you ask a follow to try your style but i would never expect a leader to do my style! If he didnt then i wouldnt ask him to!

[robd]

I'll accept

* that the teachers themselves may enjoy dancing a different style
* that by accepting a job to teach at a jive event there should be an expectation that the majority of the customers will be jivers first and foremost

but I still stand by my belief that dancing with a teacher in a style that's alien to them is wasting their talent and possibly denying others the chance to enhance their dancing in the style for which the teacher is known (after all there's only so much social dancing a teacher can be expected to do).
I also stand by the statement that it shows you are asking them for their celebrity status and not for their dance ability (as in ability to jive not ability to dance in their dance-style) (though I can understand that with Flavia the principal incentive to ask could be the fact that she is drop dead gorgeous )

[David Bailey]

(though I can understand that with Flavia the principal incentive to ask could be the fact that she is drop dead gorgeous )

Yes, It'd be a crime to waste an opportunity to do AT with Flavia - I mean, what's the point of MJ-ing with her?

[Freudian Hips]

I agree with Drathzel that you can't ask a lead to lead in an unknown dance form. For a follow it is a bit different.

However:
Does one have to be a certain level to get something good out of a teacher? What about those who have solo or other dance behind us, who might just cross over and adapt "fairly" easily and who want to dance with experienced and newcomers alike in all sorts of dance styles.

Who is going to decide when I am worthy of a dance with Jordan or other teacher?
Who will decide whether I wasted his (or my?) time?
As part of my decision about whether or not I ask someone to dance I should consider how much of both our time we will be wasting .......?
Or consider that other people might think I/he/we are wasting our time?





I don't think so

[spindr]

If you aren't sure whether someone dances a particular style you just say:
Would you care for a jive?
or
Would you care for a WCS?
etc.

If they're happy to dance that particular style, then so much to the good -- otherwise, you find some other common ground, or move on.

What's the problem? Well unless you simply *assume* that they're happy to dance the Watoosi, or whatever with you
SpinDr

[StokeBloke]

I'll accept

* that the teachers themselves may enjoy dancing a different style
* that by accepting a job to teach at a jive event there should be an expectation that the majority of the customers will be jivers first and foremost

but I still stand by my belief that dancing with a teacher in a style that's alien to them is wasting their talent and possibly denying others the chance to enhance their dancing in the style for which the teacher is known (after all there's only so much social dancing a teacher can be expected to do).
I also stand by the statement that it shows you are asking them for their celebrity status and not for their dance ability (as in ability to jive not ability to dance in their dance-style) (though I can understand that with Flavia the principal incentive to ask could be the fact that she is drop dead gorgeous )

Do you realise just how up yourself you sound Rob? There has already been discussion here about the WCS hotshots, this attitude just adds more fuel to that fire. Suggesting that jivers are somehow not worthy to dance with Jordan and Tatiana is complete tosh. As for dancing jive with Jordan and Tatiana being a waste of their time and talent, how utterly pompous Comparing WCS/jive to tennis/football really sums up this argument - complete nonsense!

Please feel free to put forward your opinion of how you would feel if you were asked to dance in a style other than the one you were a world champion in Rob - but please don't phrase it in such a way that makes it seem like real world champions would concur with you.

Jordan and Tatiana were at a dance event, dancing. People asked them to dance, they accepted. But that seems to be the sort of people they are, genuine, fun and up for a laugh. And to anyone reading this who now feels that they shouldn't ask a pro to dance because you are beneath them - please reconsider.

[MartinHarper]

I think it'd be silly for me to ask someone who can't dance Modern Jive to dance and demand that they try to dance Modern Jive with me. It would be better to ask them to dance, say that I can't dance whatever dance they specialise in, and take it from there. That way, both of us adapt, and we try to find common ground. For example, the last time I danced with a Carolina Shag follower we ended up happily dancing a variation on East Coast. If I had demanded that she try to follow a dance of my choosing, things would not have gone as smoothly.

found it difficult to cope with follows who step forward on 1 without being lead (which is one of the distinctive traits of MJ dancers).

I thought MJ followers rock-stepped on 1. At least in theory.