Improving the male dancer "stock"

[Andy McGregor]

No exceptions.
For example, I know of a particularly lost soul who's been attending regular lessons for months, and still can't lead a yo-yo, despite every follower attempting to "help" him by switching to auto-pilot. I'd guess those followers aren't helping. Wouldn't you say?

There are some people who just don't get it. And I wonder if they ever will

It's a nightmare when I get this kind of guy in the lesson. I have to move the ladies on much more frequently so that they aren't made to spend too long with this partner from hell. And I have a sticky policy with crew for this situation. When partner from hell gets a crew member in the rotation I say "will Wendy (or whoever the crew member is) drop out of the rotation with their current partner". I try to count so that I rotate the correct number for a crew member to get the partner from hell. Unfortunately, there's usually such confusion as ladies race past such guys that it doesn't always work.

One thing I have noticed is that guys who consistently fail to get the moves are also the ones who spend a lot of time talking to their partners. Maybe they're apologising, but they stand no chance at all of getting the lesson if they're not listening to the teacher. What I'd like is a blow-gun or a Tazer so I can eliminate these guys from the lesson

The thing that amazes me, and frustrates me as well, is that they come back the following week - and week, after week, after week

[straycat]

One thing I have noticed is that guys who consistently fail to get the moves are also the ones who spend a lot of time talking to their partners. Maybe they're apologising, but they stand no chance at all of getting the lesson if they're not listening to the teacher.

We have a friend who talks all the way through lessons. He does it to everyone, in all the dance disciplines that he tries, no matter the quality of the teachers - whether it be us, or some genius dance god who he may never have another chance to learn from.

He's even been known to complain (quietly) that he didn't learn much from a lesson where he's just spent the whole time ignoring the teachers, chatting away loudly to his partners, and doing completely different moves / techniques from what's being taught.

And yet in most respects, he's a genuinely nice, caring, intelligent individual.

I am, one of these days, when I get an opportunity, going to ask him why he does this. I don't expect I'll get a helpful answer though.**

**Since it's the same guy who I once saw chatting his way through a great live band performance we'd gone to see - and even complain that the band were 'too loud' and were drowning out his conversation

I do like your 'sticky policy' for rotation - great idea...

[Twirly]

I am, one of these days, when I get an opportunity, going to ask him why he does this. I don't expect I'll get a helpful answer though.

You'll probably find that he doesn't even realise that he's doing it - he's probably just chatty and friendly, as you say he's otherwise very nice. Just has this annoying habit.

[Raul]

One thing I have noticed is that guys who consistently fail to get the moves are also the ones who spend a lot of time talking to their partners. Maybe they're apologising, but they stand no chance at all of getting the lesson if they're not listening to the teacher.

The thing that amazes me, and frustrates me as well, is that they come back the following week - and week, after week, after week

He is obviously getting his priorities wrong as the golden rule in any class, if you want to learn, is to consider everything the teacher says as gospel, at least during the duration of the class. ( By all means see whether it is useful to you in your own time and take on board anything that helps you).

May be this guy is just nervous and has verbal diarrhea as a symptom.

He is either a keen and persistent learner who knows he is struggling and constantly apologising or may he believes that he is doing just fine thank you and chatting you the girls to pass the time.

If it is the former, you can encourage him to concentrate on the teaching (for the next 45 minutes treat me as a god! ) and if it is the latter, tell him to buck up. Moderate use of the Tazer definitely allowed in the latter circumstance!

[Astro]

Moderate use of the Tazer definitely allowed in the latter circumstance!

I'm worried about these tazers/tasers. Think some security guards have them now. They do 12 hour shifts too.

Why not try him with an i pod? That should keep him quiet.

[DundeeDancer]

As a struggling intermediate this thread has helped me gain some more motivation after a string of frustrating intermediate lessons.

I can't help but think that my venue could tweak the set up a little and make things better for everyone.

Seems to be the same format every Tuesday/Thursday :-
7:30-8:30 Beginners Class
8:30-8:45 Freestyle
8:45-9:15 Intermediate Class (review class in side room)
9:15-10:30 Freestyle

Do the beginners really need a whole hour to learn their routine?
(Maybe people coming along for the first few nights do but they can drop into the review class later.)

30 minutes to learn 4 intermediate moves is that enough?
(Not if last night was anything to go by.)

No review class for intermediates. (I would jump with both feet into a class like that!)

No taxi dancers for intermediates that know that nights routine because where busy teaching the beginners review class.

Maybe they should alternate classes to be easy one week and hard the next so people at different levels have a good night at least every fortnight.

Maybe that way I would learn in class more about leading/following, connection, musicality rather than just reading about it in this lovely forum.

I am enjoying the dancing and I am a kind of stubborn person that just doesn't give up and I can see that if I just stick at it, grind away and do the occasional intermediate workshop then I'll turn out to be a good social dancer but I just can't help but think things could be easier.


Then again if it was easy then everyone would be doing it and then I wouldn't be special!

[Andy McGregor]

No review class for intermediates. (I would jump with both feet into a class like that!)

No taxi dancers for intermediates that know that nights routine because where busy teaching the beginners review class.

This is such a good idea I'm going to test it at one of our venues. I think an intermediate review class would not be very popular as it clashes with the start of the main freestyle. But it would be fabulously useful for the "struggling intermediate". Another advantage would be that the intermediate teacher can say something like "if you haven't quite got this, don't worry, you can see me in the review lesson straight afterwards".

Well done DundeeDancer, have some rep

[John S]

Originally posted by Dundee Dancer
Seems to be the same format every Tuesday/Thursday :-

Well, yes, because as Franck said earlier on in this thread, the system more or less works, at least for those of us who are still dancing. But since most people who come along to the first class are NOT still coming six months later (that's an observation, no firm stats to back it up) you could argue that for them the system didn't work - and I know there are a myriad of reasons why people stop coming.

Perhaps, though, there is scope to tweak the system a bit, now and again, with the aim of achieving some of what this thread started off about, ie improving the leaders. I believe most moves taught in an intermediate class are forgotten more or less instantly, or at least by the following week (again, no stats to back that up!). So, maybe every six weeks or so, why not have a class devoted entirely to technique instead of moves? I know that there are (in Scotland anyway) weekend opportunities and workshops to improve technique but I suspect that often the people who go are the ones who least need them, because they are motivated to improve anyway. Having "technique" however it's defined, taught or specifically emphasised in the 6-weekly class (maybe using the "Just One Move" philosophy that someone referred to earlier) would reach out to far more than would ever go to a dedicated weekend workshop.

And (slightly off the subject) if you missed it, Groovemeister earlier in this thread referred to a brilliant essay on "Why Men Won't Dance" and although it's lengthy it's well worth reading. I can't resist quoting from it:
"The supposed reason for under-arm hair is for increasing the ability for others to smell one’s sweat. It is interesting to notice that a movement common to almost all partner dances is for the man to turn the women under his raised arm. In passing, the woman’s nose wafts past the man’s armpit every time."
Next time I'm leadng a turn/return, ladies, waft those noses.

[spindr]

Isn't culling the accepted method of improving the "stock" -- well, that and selective breeding. Volunteers?

SpinDr

[Gadget]

I can't help but think that my venue could tweak the set up a little and make things better for everyone...
~snip~
Do the beginners really need a whole hour to learn their routine?
(Maybe people coming along for the first few nights do but they can drop into the review class later.)

Yes. Not only beginners, but those that are not quite beginners too It also can help to inject some tips and tricks to doing the specific moves and to help with your dancing in general.

No review class for intermediates. (I would jump with both feet into a class like that!)

Our Tuesday night teacher (Lisa) has for a few weeks started to do a similar thing of going over the routine again (and again) at the back of the class when freestyle starts and giving a 'review' class of the same lesson.

Not sure how it's working, but about a third of the folk in the class seem to go into this as well (I'm not sure if that is a good or a bad sign )

Maybe they should alternate classes to be easy one week and hard the next so people at different levels have a good night at least every fortnight.

I think that a good class will have easy and hard moves within it so that people of different levels can get someting out of every class. But I would guess that about once a month there is a class where the teacher says "if you're undecided about moving up from beginner to intermediate classes, this is a good week for it." ... normally it conincides with a recent beginner or beginner plus workshop on the prior weekend.

Maybe that way I would learn in class more about leading/following, connection, musicality rather than just reading about it in this lovely forum.

I am enjoying the dancing and I am a kind of stubborn person that just doesn't give up and I can see that if I just stick at it, grind away and do the occasional intermediate workshop then I'll turn out to be a good social dancer but I just can't help but think things could be easier.

Easier to learn? Everyone learns in different ways at different speeds about different things, even though the lesson may be the same. for going for it and looking to improve yourself.

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by Dundee Dancer
Seems to be the same format every Tuesday/Thursday :-

Well, yes, because as Franck said earlier on in this thread, the system more or less works, at least for those of us who are still dancing. But since most people who come along to the first class are NOT still coming six months later (that's an observation, no firm stats to back it up) you could argue that for them the system didn't work..

They are dance classes. 6 Months is more than sufficient to learn enough MJ to last most people the rest of their lives. It is a triumph of the class & dance model that so many people have been attending for more than a decade.