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Thread: Terrible Advice

  1. #41
    Registered User killingtime's Avatar
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    Re: Terrible Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboTomato View Post
    You mean I'm not doing the correct signal? As I said my point was about signals that do not involve contact.
    Signals don't always involve contact. Often you'll find signals like the Neck Break is where you want your hand to be anyway (so the signal is also part of the move). However something I do worry about when I do a couple of moves is if I've stopped leading and I rely on the signal instead (this is bad). For example, on the Neck Break if all I'm doing is raising my hand and waiting for the follower to move to that I'm not leading any more. If I move the woman into my right hand side and raise my hand for the break then I am leading again. Indeed someone commented on me doing the hand "signal" at all since a few places in Scotland apparently don't teach it like that and move the follow and on the turn out raise the arm to neck level.

    I'm a fan of almost pretzels ( or false pretzels or whatever you like to call them) and recently I started dropping the signal of your right hand at behind your back. If your body position is correct and you are leading the woman behind you that hand signal is pointless (though it can be fun snatching it away at the last second), it only servers a purpose in real pretzels and I don't like them so why indicate that I wanted to lead one?
    Last edited by killingtime; 15th-May-2007 at 05:49 PM. Reason: Missing word

  2. #42
    Registered User Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: Terrible Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboTomato View Post
    Erm...

    You mean I'm not doing the correct signal? As I said my point was about signals that do not involve contact.
    Try leading a false preztel and a neckbreak without using any signals. I know it sounds weird and you may need someone experienced to show you. But once you realise it can be done, signals pretty much go out the window. Concentrate on just moving the follow where you want them. Put you hand near their's and they'll pretty much take it 9 times out of 10 eg if you get them into the neckbreak position and rest you right hand on their shoulder, they'll probably take it with their right. You can lead them into the neckbreak position pretty much the way you lead a first move.

    Edit - and what Killing time just said
    Last edited by Ghost; 15th-May-2007 at 05:48 PM. Reason: Great minds think alike and often cross-post :-)

  3. #43
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    Re: Terrible Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Try leading a false preztel and a neckbreak without using any signals.
    False Pretzel and Neckbreak, sure. Turbo Tomato was referring to the regular Pretzel (right hand behind back) and the Secret move (left hand across stomach). Nigel's move (left hand behind back) is also worth discussing. I think it would be good to answer TT's question in that context.
    (Though I guess answering the wrong question is on-topic for the thread title...)

    Anyways, there are three options I'm aware of for leaders:
    1. Become such an awesome leader that you can maneuver any girl's hand into yours even when her eyes are closed.
    2. Don't lead moves that are hard to lead without the standard signals.
    3. Wiggle your fingers, look at your offered hand, or otherwise attract your partner's attention to your offered hand.

    And for followers:
    1. Become such an awesome follower that any guy can maneuver your hand into theirs even when your eyes are closed.
    2. Learn the handful of standard signals in Modern Jive.
    3. Pay more attention to your leader.

  4. #44
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    Re: Terrible Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac View Post
    Get your arm up or I will tear it orf an' it ya' round the 'ead wiv the soggy end!

    Drill Sergent Circa 1975 OK I know its not strictly relevent but it made me very fond of my limbs!!
    Funnily enough I heard that once or twice in the nineties! They never change do they?

  5. #45
    Registered User Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: Terrible Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    False Pretzel and Neckbreak, sure. Turbo Tomato was referring to the regular Pretzel (right hand behind back) and the Secret move (left hand across stomach). Nigel's move (left hand behind back) is also worth discussing. I think it would be good to answer TT's question in that context.
    (Though I guess answering the wrong question is on-topic for the thread title...)

    Happy to elaborate further. With the Pretzel, Nigel's move and secret moves you can lead the follow to move herself so that her hand would naturally be near the one you want her to take. In my experience, if you offer it she'll take it. I'm drawing the distinction between using the signal to also mean "Please step over here and take this hand"; there's a distinct lead for "please step over here" that doesn't need a signal. I used the false pretzel and neckbreak simply because they're an easier starting place to try the concept in the real world.

  6. #46
    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Re: Terrible Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    Anyways, there are three options I'm aware of for leaders:
    1. Become such an awesome leader that you can maneuver any girl's hand into yours even when her eyes are closed.


    2. Don't lead moves that are hard to lead without the standard signals.
    In terms of neckbreak/any kind of pretzel - the arm/hand movements described aren't signals IMO. They are visual leads: a hand is offered - the follower should take the hand. If s/he he doesn't then s/he is not following correctly. However, please bear in mind that the follower's reaction time for a visual lead is slower than for a connected one (especially if dark/flashing/dazzling lights - or baggy shirts can hide hands quite effectively too ). As has already been said, you need to lead the follower in the direction with your connected hand, while offering the spare hand. Some leads expect you to take an offered hand immediately. IMO, "reaching" like this is wrong, and looks ugly. It also runs the risk that the lead will "rush" the move - e.g. by starting to lead the rest of the pretzel before you have stepped forward to be in the right position to follow the bit where you're walking behind his back. I follow the lead - I step in the direction led, then I take the spare hand when I'm in the right place to do so. Leads, be patient with your followers.

    3. Wiggle your fingers, look at your offered hand, or otherwise attract your partner's attention to your offered hand.
    Meh. If you must ...

    1. Become such an awesome follower that any guy can maneuver your hand into theirs even when your eyes are closed.
    Lifetime's work, Xeno's paradox applies.

    2. Learn the handful of standard signals in Modern Jive.
    Meh, again - better described as if the lead offers his hand (whichever hand) take it with your free hand, or if both hands free, nearest hand*.

    *Having said this, in MJ, if both your hands are free, then yes, a follower should generally offer right hand first. Having done other dance styles, I've got to the point now where I offer the nearest hand, which some leads find very disconcerting - but the better leads don't ...

    3. Pay more attention to your leader.
    BIG

    It's often said that if a move goes wrong, it's the lead's fault. This is true - but only if the follower is following.

  7. #47
    Registered User Spiky Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Terrible Advice

    My best example of bad advice when I started dancing.... from a non dancing friend.

    "You don't want to go dancing"


    Also "Southport or North Wales (Chill) is too far to go for a weekend away"


    Steve

  8. #48
    Registered User Jhutch's Avatar
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    Re: Terrible Advice

    Give up ceroc!!!

    (from a non-dancing friend - not something that was said to me on the dance floor!)

  9. #49
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    Re: Terrible Advice

    "your footwork is over complicated"

    "you should do more obvious signals"

    "when you go forward point your toes to the cealing and tap with your heel" -This is actually the way it is taught in Hastings!!!!!

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