Getting worse rather than better - advice?

[Keefy]

Been dancing since January, I've tried to get out a couple of times a week when I can, but rather than reaching a plateau of no progress I seem to be on the slopes going down I can manage all of the beginners moves no problem, still doing the classes to brush up on technique. I've done an intermediate workshop, I'm finding that I can now cope with the intermediate classes most of the time with only the occasional 'no way' move...

But freestyle... on dear, oh dear, oh dear I seem to be loosing moves rather than gaining them, even simple beginner moves totally desert me once I'm on the floor, I'm having more and more trouble stringing a routine together! I don't have a partner and always go to clubs alone, I can cope with the classes but my freestyle confidence seems to have vanished.

I guess that my real problem is that I'm hooked, I enjoy going out dancing even though I'm no good at it, I enjoy the friendly social side of a dance night. So I'm just plodding on, trying to work through it, hoping that something will eventually 'click' and when the freestyle confidence returns I'll enjoy the evening even more.

So what's gone wrong? Any hints and tips of ways out of it? Is it that now I know a little more I'm realising just how bad I am? Comments and advice more than welcome, I've set myself a challenge of attending the BFG later in the year so it needs to be all sorted by then

[Double Trouble]

I've said this before, but this is my advice.

It's not about how many moves you do, it's finessing the moves you have and adding style and attitude to them.

There is nothing worse than a leader trying to fit 20 moves in to a 3 minute track. It's like Krypton Factor dancing...too fussy, too much going on.

Do a musicality workshop or go in the blues room at Southport and watch what everyone else is doing. That'll sort you out.

[philsmove]

So what's gone wrong:

Nothing is wrong

hoping that something will eventually 'click'

Yes, indeed it will, but it does take time

I guess that my real problem is that I'm hooked

Welcome to the club

[NZ Monkey]

At the risk of sounding like Dr Phil..... how's the rest of you life going?

You've answered your own question - it's your confidence which is causing you trouble. Nothing (and I mean NOTHING) will make your dancing worse than losing this, and getting frustrated at how your dancing is suffering only makes the problem worse still. It's a viscious circle. Plenty of us have been caught in it at one point or another.

If something else in your everyday life is giving you grief then that's likely to be the reason (or at least a major contributing factor). Take a step back and find out what you see. Even just realising where the problem is can make it seem much smaller AND improve your dancing.

[dave the scaffolder]

Keefy my man just stick with it.

The transition from a beginner to the intermediate class is a very big step.

Make sure you have all of the beginner moves absolutely right and just stick to these during your freestyle.

A good follower would rather do beginner moves that are led well than doing flashy intermediate and advanced moves led badly.

By this self criticism you will naturally improve your dancing.

This is a long long road and you have just began to walk it, enjoy every step and remember it is not a race, rather a long stroll, so enjoy and relax and it will come.

XXX XXX DTS

[robd]

It's not about how many moves you do, it's finessing the moves you have and adding style and attitude to them.

I understand and agree with the reasoning here but this is advice you hear much more often from followers and leaders sometimes like to have a wider repertoire of moves just so that they aren't bored silly themselves with their own dancing.

go in the blues room at Southport and watch what everyone else is doing. That'll sort you out.

I reckon if Keefy is at the stage he seems to be at then going in the blues room at SP is likely to scare him sh*tless

[Double Trouble]

I reckon if Keefy is at the stage he seems to be at then going in the blues room at SP is likely to scare him sh*tless

OOoooooohhhhhh.......Scary....!

What's to be scared about? I know the standard of dancer in the blues room is mostly 'better than the average bear' but you still get a few......how can I say it...turquoise dancers in there. I think it's one of the best ways to learn, by looking at others dance.

I don't like the idea that dancers should feel they can't go in the blues room 'cos they are not good enough. I prefer the blues room mostly because of the music that is played, secondly because of the standard.

[Blind_Dynamo]

OOoooooohhhhhh.......Scary....!

What's to be scared about? I know the standard of dancer in the blues room is mostly 'better than the average bear' but you still get a few......how can I say it...turquoise dancers in there. I think it's one of the best ways to learn, by looking at others dance.

I don't like the idea that dancers should feel they can't go in the blues room 'cos they are not good enough. I prefer the blues room mostly because of the music that is played, secondly because of the standard.

I've been dancing 7months or so and you cannot get me out of the bliues room now. My first freestyle was at the Bugsy Malone night at Daventry last October and that was also the first time went into the blues room and I was asked to dance by a tall blonde lady with a brummie accent called Fletch and have not looked back since (thanks Fletch )

The point I'm trying to make this impresion that exsists avout blues room being scary is totally false. Yes the standard of dancing can be higher, but I find people just as friendly as the main floors and no lady has refused to dance with me in the blues room.

So Keefy give it a go.

[Chef]

But freestyle... on dear, oh dear, oh dear I seem to be loosing moves rather than gaining them, even simple beginner moves totally desert me once I'm on the floor, I'm having more and more trouble stringing a routine together!

So what's gone wrong? Any hints and tips of ways out of it? Is it that now I know a little more I'm realising just how bad I am? Comments and advice more than welcome, I've set myself a challenge of attending the BFG later in the year so it needs to be all sorted by then

Keefy - Nothing has gone wrong. What you are experiencing seems to be about normal for the stage you are at. The self realisation thing is also normal. When you started you were probably amazed that at the end of your first lesson you were more or less doing what had been taught from the stage. As you get better you expect more from yourself and sort of mentally beat yourself up for not being where you want to be rather than being able to see the past and appreciate how far you have come.

The problem that you seem to have is that when you are in the lesson you can get the moves and everything seems hunky dory but once you get into freestyle there is that split second of doubt as you end one move and want to start something else and in that split second of doubt you default to doing something simple. This is normal. The freestyle dance floor is a much busier and chaotic place than the lesson and you have the added mental burdens of managing space, controlling your partner to avoid collisions, and the fact that you partner is no longer in the lesson and doesn't have an expectaion of what you are about to lead.

So what you are experiencing is normal. So how to get over it.

Top of my list would be to get yourself off to a weekender. Don't wait until the BFG in October. If you are experiencing this problem now then now is whe you need it sorted. Look up when the next weekender is on, keep you bags packed and if needs be, see the forum to find if someone has got a ticket going spare at the last moment. Tickets for leaders are often readily available even up to last minute because there are just so many weekenders available these days.

There is something great that happens on a weekender which I think is mostly due to being immersed in dance for such a long period. Somewhere on the weekend most leaders find that the move just flow from them as a stream of conciousness thing and that split second of doubt between moves goes away. Try a weekender. Do it sooner rather than later. Take the Monday off or work and dance until ther early hours on the Sunday night because that seems to be where the magic works.

Give the Blues room a go but ask the help of a follower that looks like she knows what she is doing. It is a bit different from the main floor but dancing slow can help with the flow and smoothness of your moves.

Good luck Keefy. Not one of us here hasn't been through what you are going through now. It will pass.

[Raul]

You have been given a lot of good advice there Chef.

I have exactly the same problems with my Salsa at the moment, wonderful in class but paralytic in freestyle. That made me reconsider my position.

I do not go to Intermediate lessons as they just give new moves every week that will derail me from my short term goals. I have a list of the moves that i really like and that i do well (relatively speaking of course)and i stick to these and just look for little bits that will go with these from watching the intermediate class and other dancers. No, they are not style points, (although this may come eventually) they are just things that will make the moves clearer to the follower. When i gain confidence that i can do these in my sleep with three quarters of the followers, then i add a new one.

I am not worried about the followers getting bored with me because i am confident that i am doing the moves reasonably well and i do not dance with the same person twice in a row. I have danced with the same person 5 times in an evening but i am sure that she will have been led into 100 different moves in that evening. I just hope the ones i did ranked well in the manner of execution.

.

[Keefy]

Thanks all for the comments and advice, I feel a bit better knowing that it is quite common! Pulling up the psychiatrist chair for NZM... don't think it's that, got a few minor niggles in my life such as a divorce, GF problems, new job, homeless soon... but that's nothing new

Brilliant analysis from Chef there, that helped a lot and put things into perspective. I think a weekender would freak me out at the moment, I was looking at the Blaze schedule and thinking just how lost I would be right now. I'm keeping my eye out for workshops though, DT's suggestion is a good one. Good advice on the less is more as well, I've started to retreat back into simple beginners stuff but trying to improve technique.

Oh well, keep at it and wait for it to pass seems to be the general consensus, so on that note I'll hit the shower, feed myself, and then head out to a Sunday venue for a change. I promise I'll try and force myself to do a bit more freestyle Keep the comments comming...

[the whale]

Keith

I know you've had some good advice so far, but I have to add my tuppence worth... I've been (trying!) dancing for about the same time as you. You've already answered your own question... it's all about confidence. If you think back to your first or second week, think about how lost you were with beginner moves... that you now find come quite easily. The game has moved on, that's all, intermediate moves now leave you feeling lost (in freestyle) but in a few weeks/months you'll be throwing them in like a good un. You are currently suffering from a lack of self confidence... well so does everyone else, it's just that some hide it better than others! Take a wee minute, compare where you are today, to where you were at the turn of the year? I'm sure you would like to include more moves in your repertoir (who wouldn't?) but unless your being refused requests to dance or partners are leaving midway through a dance you must be doing something right. Be bold, dance with confidence and atitude as if you owned the dancefloor! Concentrate on leading the moves you are comfortable with, then gradualy & slowly introduce some new moves, with a trusted partner, and if they go wrong... laugh! Then try them again, and keep trying them untill they become (a good) habit. Everyone began as a beginner, and everyone remembers the problems they suffered to get to where they are on their dancing road. Enjoy the journey (a superb dancer and very wise person told me this). Sometimes you need people to drag you outside your comfort zone, and I have to say the vast majority of the ceroc population are very good at this and very helpful. As I said before, be bold. Have the courage to go forward with your dancing. We are very poor (as a nation) at complimenting ourselves when we do something well, but we are great (world champions in fact) at decrying our achievements and saying how crap we are at things. Give yourself permisssion to feel good about your dancing. I wish you all the best mate, enjoy it & remember confidence, atitude, laughter and smiling.

David.

[MartinHarper]

My freestyle confidence seems to have vanished.

One way to boost your confidence levels is to stay within your comfort zone. Spend more time dancing with folks you've danced with before, and spend more time dancing moves you've danced before. Once you're feeling more self-assured and relaxed on the dance floor, start mixing it up again. Keep learning from beginner classes, for similar reasons.

It's all about what's right for you. Some people learn best by overwhelming themselves with new challenges, whilst others learn best by making slow but steady progress from areas they're comfortable with.

[Keefy]

Thank you one and all, there's been some brilliant stuff coming in both on the thread and privately. A common theme seems to be "yup - been there!". Your post was damn close David, maybe I am being too self critical. Yes, I remember giving up on a few beginners classes at first as they were too much for me (I'm a slow learner), now I get most if not all of the intermediate class. I do enjoy the journey, that's the problem When I am dragged onto the dance floor I always manage to laugh at myself when I do screw it up big time!

I shall just keep plodding away, despite the problems I'm enjoying it too much to quit now Tonight was typical for me, I did the beginners class, danced the slot between the classes (a few OK, one really bad). I just about managed the intermediate class... then it all went pear shaped again and the confidence vanished, I didn't stay long after that. But on a positive note that's better than I have been managing of late, I did manage a few passable dances. So plod onwards it is.

[fletch]

It's not about how many moves you do

There is nothing worse than a leader trying to fit 20 moves in to a 3 minute track. It's like Krypton Factor dancing...too fussy, too much going on.

:

this is exacterly what I told BARMPOT he had so many mooves going around in his head he was getting in a right tangle, back to basics, you might get board we don't

If something else in your everyday life is giving you grief then that's likely to be the reason (or at least a major contributing factor). Take a step back and find out what you see. Even just realising where the problem is can make it seem much smaller AND improve your dancing.

I understand and agree with the reasoning here but this is advice you hear much more often from followers and leaders sometimes like to have a wider repertoire of moves just so that they aren't bored silly themselves with their own dancing.



I reckon if Keefy is at the stage he seems to be at then going in the blues room at SP is likely to scare him sh*tless

i'm sure guy's do get board, I think as a follower we get the better deal

ho and SP in the blues room he will only be scared sh*tless if he dances with..........no .....no .......see I can keep it shut Keefy you can come in with me honey I will lookafter you and stear you to kind folk, it eases you into this world, I agree it is scary for newbies I was lucky I had chef to take me in there are a few of us that seem to try and help newbies ......a bit like prefects I point out people to ask and people not to ask and I try and get them dances

I've been dancing 7months or so and you cannot get me out of the bliues room now. My first freestyle was at the Bugsy Malone night at Daventry last October and that was also the first time went into the blues room and I was asked to dance by a tall blonde lady with a brummie accent called Fletch and have not looked back since (thanks Fletch )




So Keefy give it a go.

I look out for newbies hovvering bit like a venus fly trap

I promise I'll try and force myself to do a bit more freestyle Keep the comments comming...

look out for me well you carn't miss me realy I will be at Hammersmith on Staurday will you be there

(a superb dancer and very wise person told me this). Sometimes you need people to drag you outside your comfort zone, and I have to say the vast majority of the ceroc population are very good at this and very helpful. As I said before, be bold. Have the courage to go forward with your dancing. We are very poor (as a nation) at complimenting ourselves when we do something well, but we are great (world champions in fact) at decrying our achievements and saying how crap we are at things. Give yourself permisssion to feel good about your dancing. I wish you all the best mate, enjoy it & remember [B]confidence, atitude, laughter and [/B]smiling.

David.

fab post

if you can be brave you will move on quicker

smile at the world it smiles back at you, we all like to be around positive people

i'm sure we all know someone that is allways putting themselves down, its draining, give it a bit of laughter it winns every time

I allways say, we are all looking for something out of dance, for some its just a Thursday out with the girls while the old man is at the snooker match

for some they want to be teachers, compete, run there own venue

It helped me when I asked myself that do I wan't from dance, it seemed easyer to achive when I knew what I wanted and what I needed to do to get it

I will tell you what it is when we dance

and not been very good at telling people our good point, yes I know exacterly wht you mean

One way to boost your confidence levels is to stay within your comfort zone. Spend more time dancing with folks you've danced with before, and spend more time dancing moves you've danced before. Once you're feeling more self-assured and relaxed on the dance floor, start mixing it up again. Keep learning from beginner classes, for similar reasons.

It's all about what's right for you. Some people learn best by overwhelming themselves with new challenges, whilst others learn best by making slow but steady progress from areas they're comfortable with.

I had to go back to a what I seen as a more easyer comfort zone last year, it didn't take long, you don't get rid of me that easy and I was back looking for new chalanges

isnt that right Martin

[Keefy]

It helped me when I asked myself that do I wan't from dance, it seemed easyer to achive when I knew what I wanted and what I needed to do to get it

That's a good question!

I started dancing as a personal challenge, I spent all of my life convincing myself that I was one of those people who could never dance. I did try briefly several years ago (with ex) but that was a disaster When I had the opportunity last year I went for it, did a bit of ballroom, did a bit of salsa. The ballroom bored me, the salsa music drove me round the bend, but I did it, and enjoyed the achievement. Then in January I switched to MJ. It seemed to suit me better, I loved the friendly ethos, the vast range of music is more to my taste.

So why do I dance? It's a personal achievement, but the trouble is I'm now very self critical and I want more I really enjoy an evening out, the music and the people. I guess frustration would be another good word to describe my current difficulties, I know I would enjoy it even more when I can get past this current blockage. I'm encouraged by the "it's common, keep going!" comments, at least I know it's not just me being useless

Thank you for your very kind offer Fletch, I'll hold you to that one sometime I avoid pure freestyles at the moment, London itself is a bit out-of-range as I tend to skirt round the north and east borders. But one day, one day... when I'm dancing better...

[fletch]

That's a good question!


Thank you for your very kind offer Fletch, I'll hold you to that one sometime I avoid pure freestyles at the moment, London itself is a bit out-of-range as I tend to skirt round the north and east borders. But one day, one day... when I'm dancing better...

True when you can answer the question, I think it all becomes a bit easyer

Don't waite to become a better dancer to go come and become a better dancer

[Twirlie Bird]

So why do I dance? It's a personal achievement, but the trouble is I'm now very self critical and I want more I really enjoy an evening out, the music and the people.

The fact that you want more is very positive. It sounds like you have the right attitude to succeed. You want more because you want to be a great dancer. You watch other dancers and hope to be able to dance like them. The day that you think you are there and no longer need to learn is the day your dancing will stand still.

Please don't be too hard on yourself. Enjoy the journey and try to stay focused. Give yourself some praise, some credit for what you have already achieved.

At some point come out of your comfort zone. This is by far the very best thing I have ever done. It was scary. I'm sure as a lead it's even scarier. However your dancing will fly, it will come on so much. Especially if you have friends around you who will point you in the right direction.

[SteveK]

Thank you for your very kind offer Fletch, I'll hold you to that one sometime I avoid pure freestyles at the moment, London itself is a bit out-of-range as I tend to skirt round the north and east borders. But one day, one day... when I'm dancing better...

At some point come out of your comfort zone. This is by far the very best thing I have ever done. It was scary. I'm sure as a lead it's even scarier. However your dancing will fly, it will come on so much. Especially if you have friends around you who will point you in the right direction.

Keefy - can I suggest going to Ashtons for one of the Friday freestyles. It's close to the end of the M1, so should be relatively easy for you to get to. I remember the first time I ever went there; I admit that I was a little nervous on the way there, but found it so rewarding, and drove home afterwards with such a massive smile on my face. There aren't too many hotshots there, and I found that going there improved my dancing enormously.

(And as an extra incentive, you may get to meet lots of other friendly forum members there as well!)

I'm not sure when the next Friday freestyle is, but strongly recommend that you try it!

[Andy McGregor]

turquoise dancers in there.

This is such a difficult colour. It makes you look washed out if you're a bit pale and it's difficult to team with other colours. Try orange or, as a last resort, black.

My advice is to go dancing more. Keep dancing 'til your legs ache and your feet are sore. Dance with everyone and only do moves that you're comfortable with. My personal method is, in addition to my comfortable moves that I can do well (hopefully), to have just one move that I'm working on and drop that into my freestyle in the slower tracks with the better followers. I don't try to introduce any other new (to me) moves into my freestyle until I've really, really, got to grips with my 'move in progress'.

The above strategy has 2 effects. 1. I can always dance within my limits and spend time playing with the music. 2. I can measure my progress as I will be getting better and better at my 'move in progress'.

The other thing you could do is some workshops, dance weekenders, etc.

One thing you should never do to improve your Modern Jive is to give it up and start some other style of dancing - that way lies madness, especially if it's Argentine Tango