Mary Poppins v Amir and Cat - the people decide

[ducasi]

I wasn't at the champs, so I can only go by what I have seen of the three routines we are talking about on this thread on other occasions.

The Thriller routine didn't bowl me over when I saw it at Chill – perhaps because I saw it mostly from behind. The three times I've seen the Mary Poppins routine I've been impressed.

Both I am sure are fairly derivative of the concept behind them.

I don't know I've seen this particular performance from Amir and Cat, but I've seen them in the past – every time excellent.

However, as far as engaging with the audience, I think Alex and Phil's routine probably wins.

I have no idea who were better on the day though, so I can't vote. Not sure what the point of the poll is anyway...

In every competition there are decisions from the judges which seem to differ from "popular opinion". That's because the judges tend to be looking more critically than the audience and may come away with differ opinions of the performances.

Thing is, it's not a popularity contest, otherwise they would do away with the judges and employ a clap-o-meter.

[Spin dryer]

In every competition there are decisions from the judges which seem to differ from "popular opinion". That's because the judges tend to be looking more critically than the audience and may come away with differ opinions of the performances.

Thing is, it's not a popularity contest, otherwise they would do away with the judges and employ a clap-o-meter.

If there were some way it could be made practicable, wouldn't it be rather exciting to have audience participation in the judging (as they do on SCD)?

[Minnie M]

If there were some way it could be made practicable, wouldn't it be rather exciting to have audience participation in the judging (as they do on SCD)?

Bring back JiveMasters

[Spin dryer]

Bring back JiveMasters

How did that work?

[ducasi]

If there were some way it could be made practicable, wouldn't it be rather exciting to have audience participation in the judging (as they do on SCD)?

No. SCD & SDF suffered as a result of the public vote – as they tended to vote for the most viewer-friendly dancers, rather than the best.

I prefer the judges to judge.

[TheTramp]

If there were some way it could be made practicable, wouldn't it be rather exciting to have audience participation in the judging (as they do on SCD)?

No.

Bring back JiveMasters

I watched a whole table full of people vote once, at the first final, before the dancing had actually started. While it was fun, and undoubtably interesting, it was still in some part a popularity contest, which had nothing to do with the dancing.

No. SCD & SDF suffered as a result of the public vote – as they tended to vote for the most viewer-friendly dancers, rather than the best.

I prefer the judges to judge.

Indeed. And generally, you have to accept that the judges decision is final, even if you don't agree with it. Hell, some of the judges won't agree with it!

Except for those occasions where the judges decisions are really strange of course!

[Dreadful Scathe]

If there were some way it could be made practicable, wouldn't it be rather exciting to have audience participation in the judging (as they do on SCD)?

No way!! Whats the point of a dance competition where the people who judge can make up any criteria they like for judging. At jivemasters people sometimes filled out their voting sheets before the couple even danced - just as people do with the tv programmes. This is good ??! I'd completely lose interest in a competition where that was practiced.

I haven't seen Amirs showcase but I have seen the Mary Poppins one. My opinion would be Mary Poppins tried to tell a not very original story and but did it very well indeed. The voice overs from the film I found annoying (just dance, we can SEE who you are and we know the music, thanks - i thought). The dance fitted the subject very well though. So if Amirs was technically better but had little in the way of a story, costume and perhaps less in crowd interest. I can see him dropping points where Mary Poppins gained.

Big Deal. I doubt Amir is crying himself to sleep right now

[Cruella]

I've seen both of these 'showcases' a few times now, including sundays performances. I don't really think it is appropriate to have to choose between them. It's the same as choosing between watching The Royal Ballet perform Swan Lake and a top West End Show such as Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Two completely different nights out. Amir and Cats performance was moving and beautiful to watch. Whereas Phil and Alex make me smile and want to sing along. Both performances are worthy of our utmost respect as to what can be achieved with a lot of hard work. Surely (as discussed in another thread) it is just an example towards the argument of maybe instead of a team cabaret and a showcase catagory, there is a cabaret catagory for couples or teams and a showcase catagory for the same. Cabaret would incorporate the Alex and Phil's and Thriller type performances. Whereas the Showcase would have the more 'pure dance' performances such as Amir and Cat, Phil and Yuko, Jango Team....

[Lynn]

But none of that deprives anyone else of the right to express their opinion as to what they like and what they don't.

Of course not. For example, I don't like this thread.

[Tessalicious]

If there were some way it could be made practicable, wouldn't it be rather exciting to have audience participation in the judging (as they do on SCD)?

I seem to remember that at Chill everyone who'd got through to the final of the DWAS was really pissed off that it turned into a popularity contest for the final placings. That was just a last minute DWAS - can you imagine having your year's hard work get less applause because you're not a local teacher and the other guys are, so they win? I didn't think so.

EDIT: PS. it wasn't a broomstick, it was a chimney brush. Duh.

[Yogi_Bear]

I've seen both of these 'showcases' a few times now, including sundays performances. I don't really think it is appropriate to have to choose between them. It's the same as choosing between watching The Royal Ballet perform Swan Lake and a top West End Show such as Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Two completely different nights out. Amir and Cats performance was moving and beautiful to watch. Whereas Phil and Alex make me smile and want to sing along. Both performances are worthy of our utmost respect as to what can be achieved with a lot of hard work. Surely (as discussed in another thread) it is just an example towards the argument of maybe instead of a team cabaret and a showcase catagory, there is a cabaret catagory for couples or teams and a showcase catagory for the same. Cabaret would incorporate the Alex and Phil's and Thriller type performances. Whereas the Showcase would have the more 'pure dance' performances such as Amir and Cat, Phil and Yuko, Jango Team....

In my view it comes down to this. Do you want to be entertained, or do you want to be inspired?

[Cruella]

In my view it comes down to this. Do you want to be entertained, or do you want to be inspired?

Precisely,
Cabaret Category = Entertainment
Showcase Category = Inspirational

[David Franklin]

In every competition there are decisions from the judges which seem to differ from "popular opinion". That's because the judges tend to be looking more critically than the audience and may come away with differ opinions of the performances.

From the judge's mouth... (I am aware this is somewhat of a selective quote)

(emphasis mine): A showcase is a showcase - that encompasses all areas of what that means. That is, that it is not purely a showcase of dancing. It's about theater, it's about entertainment, it's about presentation and it's about creativity, technical proficiency and musicality.

Without wanting to get into the specifics of two routines I've never seen (other than a grainy YouTube version of Amir/Cat's routine), if the judges are saying "routine A may have been better danced than routine B, but we think routine B was more entertaining", and yet "popular opinion" is that routine A was actually more entertaining, then I think that does show a problem with the judging. Entertainment value is one area where "popular opinion" surely is a very important criteria.

Re: audience judging. They do this at the Mayan competition I mentioned on the showcase thread. Pretty much everyone involved agrees it's a totally unfair system.

[djtrev]

...........

I haven't seen Amirs showcase but I have seen the Mary Poppins one. My opinion would be Mary Poppins tried to tell a not very original story and but did it very well indeed. The voice overs from the film I found annoying (just dance, we can SEE who you are and we know the music, thanks - i thought). The dance fitted the subject very well though. So if Amirs was technically better but had little in the way of a story, costume and perhaps less in crowd interest. I can see him dropping points where Mary Poppins gained.

Big Deal. I doubt Amir is crying himself to sleep right now

Never having been to a comp. as such I didnt realise that the dance had to tell a story.
Basically what you are saying then is that in the case of showcase it is theatre.
Hey ho and there was me thinking it was couples doing moves that I have no idea how to do but dressed up to add a little sparkle to the proceedings.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Basically what you are saying then is that in the case of showcase it is theatre.

No. I was giving my opinion on the Mary Poppins showcase. Personally I think a showcase is more about the dance than the theatre, but judges have their own set of points they are looking for and clearly thought the Mary Poppins routine was better.

[ducasi]

I seem to remember that at Chill everyone who'd got through to the final of the DWAS was really pissed off that it turned into a popularity contest for the final placings.

I was pissed off and I wasn't even in the final.

EDIT: PS. it wasn't a broomstick, it was a chimney brush. Duh.

[Lindsay]

Sorry to have missed these, would like to see them on youtube if anyone has a link! I love cabaret/performances - would love a whole comp full of it!

I've seen Amir & Cat's at Britrock...... and was blown away. It was in a different league imo, and to give a correlative judgement in parallel with a MJ couple could prove confounding for any judge. Vox populi is valid, but as has been said, possibly open to misapplication.

[Spiky Steve]

Personally I would like to see an audience choice for all categories. It would only work once you get to the final though.

You could do it with mobile phones and the results are instant. Like on TV programmes. It would be both fun and interesting to see how peoples opinions differ from the judges.

I'm sure Ceroc wouldn't mind another opportunity to make money as well.

Spiky Steve

[Dreadful Scathe]

Personally I would like to see an audience choice for all categories. It would only work once you get to the final though.

You could do it with mobile phones and the results are instant. Like on TV programmes. It would be both fun and interesting to see how peoples opinions differ from the judges.

As long as the peoples stupid opinions were ignored for the actual results, then yes, it would be interesting to compare

[stewart38]

Personally I would like to see an audience choice for all categories. It would only work once you get to the final though.

You could do it with mobile phones and the results are instant. Like on TV programmes. It would be both fun and interesting to see how peoples opinions differ from the judges.

I'm sure Ceroc wouldn't mind another opportunity to make money as well.

Spiky Steve

yes they did is at Walthemstow Town Hall (ceroc venue) so why not

I didnt vote as its comparing chalk with cheese, neither inspired me but maybe too much watching Tele or cruise ship type stuff